Post by ksarant December 13, 2004 (11 of 36)
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Daland said:
It is impossible to notice the improvement in the sound without an SACD player because the 96kHz/24-bit mastering applies only to the SACD layer and the CD layer is only 44.1Hz/16-bit as indicated in the booklet.
The 6-second gap is there, but most people would not even notice it because no music is missing. There is just a brief pause after the duet before the crescendo sets in. Perhaps this is one of Kleiber's idiosyncrasies, which has now been restored. Why a replacement disc? Just move on to the next track if you don't like the break. This is making a mountain out of a molehill.
This is not a molehill! And it is not a Kleiber idiosyncrasy, either. There is no gap in the original recording. The gap is clearly an edit error in the new remasterin. When one is asked to pay $38, one should expect the integrity of the music to be preserved. Advancing to the next track only lessens the gap, it does not restore the unbroken continuity of the work as composed AND as recorded by Kleiber!
And I disagree with the comment about the sound. There IS a discernible difference in the sound, even on a CD player. But it's not a major improvement, that was my original point. If Daland's comment is correct, then what is the point of buying ANY 96/24 remastering, such as Decca Legends or DG Originals? I would presume that the CD layer would show the same improvement as any regular 96/24 release.
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Post by ksarant December 13, 2004 (12 of 36)
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mdt said:
This recording was remastered earlyer to 96/24 and released on CD in the Centenial series. I supose the CD layer of the SA-CD consists of the same material. Comparing the SA-CD's CD layer to one of the remastered CDs will show now difference whereas it should show an improovement over the original CD release.
I didn't invest in the Centennial series, but I'd be curious to see if the gap that I'm talking about is on that CD release.
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Post by mdt December 13, 2004 (13 of 36)
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ksarant said:
I didn't invest in the Centennial series, but I'd be curious to see if the gap that I'm talking about is on that CD release.
The gap is NOT there ! Unfortunately now that you have made me aware of it the gap on the SA-CD version annoys me as well, it really has a considerable impact on the musical expression.
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Post by mdt December 13, 2004 (14 of 36)
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ksarant said:
I didn't invest in the Centennial series, but I'd be curious to see if the gap that I'm talking about is on that CD release.
The gap is NOT there ! Unfortunately now that you have made me aware of it the gap on the SA-CD version annoys me as well, it really has a considerable impact on the musical expression.
So the CD layer of the SA-CD is not identical to the former 24/96 remastering, also the sound of the SA-CD red book layer is superior to that of the centenial release. I supose it was downconverted from 2ch DSD to 16/44.1 instead of directly from 24/96 to 16/44.1. I have read before that this process is suposed to yield better results than sampling frequency conversions within the PCM format.
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mdt said:
The gap is NOT there ! Unfortunately now that you have made me aware of it the gap on the SA-CD version annoys me as well, it really has a considerable impact on the musical expression.
Oh, for goodness sake it's just Verdi!
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Post by mdt December 13, 2004 (16 of 36)
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jdaniel@jps.net said:
Oh, for goodness sake it's just Verdi!
What do you mean by "just" Verdi ? Also i suggest you compare the two versions yourself before stating an opinion on this. When first reading ksarant's post i also thought he was being to peticular, but after comparing for myself i have to completely agree with him. This i a rather gross editing error, especially considering that DG keeps braging in its booklets that their engineers are highly educated technicaly AND musicaly.
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mdt said:
What do you mean by "just" Verdi ? Also i suggest you compare the two versions yourself before stating an opinion on this. When first reading ksarant's post i also thought he was being to peticular, but after comparing for myself i have to completely agree with him. This i a rather gross editing error, especially considering that DG keeps braging in its booklets that their engineers are highly educated technicaly AND musicaly.
Sorry, just joshin'
Verdi just has one too many oom-pah-pahs per square inch for my tastes. The Requiem? *That's* different.
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Post by tream December 13, 2004 (18 of 36)
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jdaniel@jps.net said:
Sorry, just joshin'
Verdi just has one too many oom-pah-pahs per square inch for my tastes. The Requiem? *That's* different.
How about Otello? Don Carlo? Falstaff? Aida? Un Ballo? I think by the time Verdi composed these he was past the oom-pah-pah stage. I feel somewhat the same about earlier Verdi, brilliant as some of it is. I also think some of the librettos were absurd (La Forza del Destino, for example-some great music, but can anyone tell me what Preziosilla's role really achieves, or what she is all about?)
Ranking Verdi's famous operas-a personal and wholly biased view-top to bottom:
Otello
Don Carlo (except for the ending, which doesn't work well, I might have this #1)
Un Ballo
Falstaff
Aida
La Traviata
La Forza (for the music, not the plot)
Il Trovatore
Rigoletto
Simon Boccanegra(for me, only the council scene works-it is great, but one scene does not an opera make)
The only one of these I've never seen live is, believe it or not, Aida(televised, yes, but never on stage).
I'm not familiar with the earlier works, except for some of the arias.
If anyone is listening, I would prioritize Wagner and Mozart over Verdi for SACD release.......
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Post by mdt December 14, 2004 (19 of 36)
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If anyone is listening, I would prioritize Wagner and Mozart over Verdi for SACD release.......
With Wagner you're lucky, a complete Ring on SA-CD is on the way.
But besides that, why are so few complete operas issued on SA-CD no matter from which composer ?! I think this genre benefits immensly from SA-CD's higher resolution.
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Post by tream December 14, 2004 (20 of 36)
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mdt said:
With Wagner you're lucky, a complete Ring on SA-CD is on the way.
But besides that, why are so few complete operas issued on SA-CD no matter from which composer ?! I think this genre benefits immensly from SA-CD's higher resolution.
With respect to the number of Aussies who post here (not to mention the owner of the site himself), I have some concern about the provenence of this coming recording. The Ring requires a great conductor and singers who can project emotionally and vocally. It also requires a great orchestra. I've never heard of a single singer listed in this production (means only that they don't have big international careers) nor am I familiar with the conductor, Asher Fisch. Again, that may not mean much, but I recall a Ring produced in San Francisco in the early 70's (this one did have well-known singers) conducted by Suitner, who was a bit known, and many of the patrons convinced themselves they were hearing work as good as Furtwangler-which was patently not the case, but they were wearing "rose-colored ears", as it were, because it was a local production.
I feel the same hearing the current principal SF Opera conductor today, Donald Runnicles, in Wagner-pretty OK for a live performance, but nothing to replace the recordings on your shelf. I was at a performance of Meistersinger where James Morris made his debut as Hans Sachs, and really, the orchestral work was capable but no more. I also know that I have been a big booster of the SFS Mahler series, so it might seem that I'm talking out of both sides ofmy mouth, but I do think they have a special quality to them.
So we'll have to see. I hope this recording gets distribution in the US. I hope it's fantastic.
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