|
|
|
Goodwood said:
I can’t work out why there seems to be so much resignation about the possible demise (that's how I see it anyway) of this format.
I just don’t get it. People, including me, are now being forced to shell out on 180 gram vinyls in order to enjoy classic albums.
So lets pretend you have the ears of EMI, Atlantic or whoever and they need convincing that they aren’t going to lose money on releasing those long awaited albums.
Here’s a few ideas of mine:
1) Announce releases as limited editions
2) Give SACD production and distribution to 3rd parties as in the vinyls market where we have/had people like Classic Records and Simply Vinyls
3) Sell them at a premium price. Some vinyls are selling at silly prices so why not accept that SACDs are not viable at current prices. This might tie in with idea 2).
Any better ideas?
I'm still relatively new to this forum (and SACDs), but it seems so full of "life" here, and "demise" isn't a word that immediately springs to my mind when I think of SACD. I could be naive or misguided, though.
I'm not sure that I have any useful ideas, but here are some of the thoughts that I often have.
1) Why has so little been done about trying to educate and inform the public about hi-res audio formats?
2) Why do high street retailers have no idea what an SACD or DVD-A is? This is definately my impression, having asked and looked in a number of them. I'm in the UK, but Germany and Hungary (two countries I visit often) are no different.
3) Why don't record labels release purely on SACD hybrid, instead of both CD and SACD hybrid?
Late last year, I put a question by e-mail to a musician about whether he thought any of his albums were likely to be released on SACD or DVD-A. I got an answer yesterday, saying that he thought it was rather unlikely, being that the record labels do not seem interested whenever there are higher costs involved. This particular musician has had quite a number of albums released on the Sony/Columbia label. I'll admit that I don't know the workings of the music industry, or costs involved in the production of discs, or indeed how many need to be sold to make a decent return. When the music industry complains about a drop in sales of CDs (or do they mean just hard formats?) due to downloads, surely these exciting formats offer the chance to breathe new life into recorded music sales?
Is it me though, or do I just imagine that there is a lot of interest in SACD when I visit this forum and others, or is it just because we're all preaching to the converted?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kutyatest said:
1) Why has so little been done about trying to educate and inform the public about hi-res audio formats?
2) Why do high street retailers have no idea what an SACD or DVD-A is? This is definately my impression, having asked and looked in a number of them. I'm in the UK, but Germany and Hungary (two countries I visit often) are no different.
3) Why don't record labels release purely on SACD hybrid, instead of both CD and SACD hybrid?
4) Is it me though, or do I just imagine that there is a lot of interest in SACD when I visit this forum and others, or is it just because we're all preaching to the converted?
Kedves Kutyatest,
1) For about five years, Sony and Philips have spent millions of dollars educating the industry and the public about the benfits of SACD such as superior sound quality. The general public ran 180 degrees in the opposite direction: to typically low-quality MP3 because it was more convenient (downloadable) and initially 'free'. When the public didn't take notice the industry (hardware manufacturers, music companies and retailers) soon lost interest too.
2) I guess a lot of the 'education' from the manufacturers doesn't reach the shopfloor sales assisants. Add to that the high attrition rate of shop staff. In Europe their knowledge level is still quite good compared to the US, where a audio sales guy may have been flipping burgers the month before and selling cars the next.
3) Not all do. For instance, Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon 30th Anniversary Edition was only released on hybrid SACD (and perhaps vinyl). I guess in the penny-pinching scheme of the record companies' bean counters it makes financial sense to release the mass-selling edition of an album as RBCD because it's tens of cents cheaper than a hybrid discs.
4) It is a niche. This site (more than any other SACD site) has a fair number of visitors yet it seems the number of people frequently posting is perhaps a few dozen; in the low hundreds at best. Hopefully the invisible users we're preaching to include many people new to SACD. Spread the message is the best we can do.
Szia
|
|
|
|
|
|
I don't think SACD is dying at all.
The new Playstation 3 player from Sony has a built-in Blu-ray disk player, DVD, CD, and SACD player.
This move by sony makes no fiscal sense unless they feel that SACD is going to last.
Part of the reason that Blu-ray beat out HD DVD was because the blu-ray player was a part of the PS3 - hopefully, if you can get even a small percentage of PS3 users hooked on SACD it will lead to a thriving market for SACD.
|
|
|
Post by Johnno May 29, 2008 (14 of 29)
|
|
Goodwood said:
I can’t work out why there seems to be so much resignation about the possible demise (that's how I see it anyway) of this format.
I just don’t get it. People, including me, are now being forced to shell out on 180 gram vinyls in order to enjoy classic albums.
So lets pretend you have the ears of EMI, Atlantic or whoever and they need convincing that they aren’t going to lose money on releasing those long awaited albums.
Here’s a few ideas of mine:
1) Announce releases as limited editions
2) Give SACD production and distribution to 3rd parties as in the vinyls market where we have/had people like Classic Records and Simply Vinyls
3) Sell them at a premium price. Some vinyls are selling at silly prices so why not accept that SACDs are not viable at current prices. This might tie in with idea 2).
Any better ideas?
I think what has to happen is for some breakthrough that will make producing hybrid discs as cheap as producing CDs. Then we could see one format being released and everyone would be happy.
Whether that is ever likely to become a reality is I guess the 64000 dolar question. I'm reminded of the comments a top executive at Hyperion made when I wrote to him about producing hybrid SACDs only. Hybrids were just too expensive to make for any possibility of a 'single disc' release arrangement and it would obviously spell disaster for the company when the majority of its customers were only interested in the CD layer and were being forced to pay higher prices. They would either decide against buying or look elsewhere for a cheaper alternative if it existed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Seventh Taylor said:
Kedves Kutyatest,
1) For about five years, Sony and Philips have spent millions of dollars educating the industry and the public about the benfits of SACD such as superior sound quality. The general public ran 180 degrees in the opposite direction: to typically low-quality MP3 because it was more convenient (downloadable) and initially 'free'. When the public didn't take notice the industry (hardware manufacturers, music companies and retailers) soon lost interest too.
2) I guess a lot of the 'education' from the manufacturers doesn't reach the shopfloor sales assisants. Add to that the high attrition rate of shop staff. In Europe their knowledge level is still quite good compared to the US, where a audio sales guy may have been flipping burgers the month before and selling cars the next.
3) Not all do. For instance, Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon 30th Anniversary Edition was only released on hybrid SACD (and perhaps vinyl). I guess in the penny-pinching scheme of the record companies' bean counters it makes financial sense to release the mass-selling edition of an album as RBCD because it's tens of cents cheaper than a hybrid discs.
4) It is a niche. This site (more than any other SACD site) has a fair number of visitors yet it seems the number of people frequently posting is perhaps a few dozen; in the low hundreds at best. Hopefully the invisible users we're preaching to include many people new to SACD. Spread the message is the best we can do.
Szia
Szia A Hetedik Szabo!
I enjoyed reading your post very much, and the one from Freaky Audio Fool, which certainly paints an optimistic picture.
I do consider myself to be an eternal optimist, and perhaps your closing sentence about spreading the word holds part of the answer. Hopefully the way information passes around so easily nowadays might also assist. Yes, it is very hard to judge how many newcomers there are reading these posts, or on other forums. It gives me a lot of pleasure to read postings about hi-res formats and music - possibly more in fact than about the hardware. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm not only new to SACD, but to this forum as well,. You do appear well informed, and I have no reason to doubt your information, but the millions of dollars spent on promoting SACD were missed by me. I agree that I don't regularly buy hi-fi magazines, so I possibly missed something there, but hi-res formats are barely (if at all) mentioned in What HiFi magazine.
Without wishing to really take this thread off in totally the wrong direction, I happened to discover SACD purely by chance – the same applies to DVD-A. I ask myself every so often, how many others are out there that don’t actually know what they’re missing? I had an ordinary (read inexpensive) Sony DVD player, connected to a mainstream Japanese AV receiver, and an ordinary 5.1 (not high-end) speaker system. I used this system to play both my CDs and DVD videos – audio through all speakers, whether mono or stereo. I was very pleased with it at the time. Late in 2004, I was given Jean Michel Jarres “Aero” album as a present. I was overjoyed with it, and very impressed with how it sounded. I mistakenly thought I’d discovered DVD Audio! I discovered probably six months later that I hadn’t, but I had the interest in multi-channel music. The next logical step was genuine DVD-As, as at least I could play the non hi-res part of them in MCH. My collection started to grow. DVD-As created an interest in high-end hi-fi, and Arcam came into my sights. At around that time, I learnt about SACDs. All by chance!
It appears as if I might be punishing myself, but I’ve bought only one CD over the last three years, and I’m doing my best not to buy more. Although my player extracts an amazing amount of info from CDs, it seems to make more sense to feed it as much hi-res stuff as possible!
Köszi!
|
|
|
Post by bissie June 1, 2008 (16 of 29)
|
|
The Seventh Taylor said:
Kedves Kutyatest,
1) For about five years, Sony and Philips have spent millions of dollars educating the industry and the public about the benfits of SACD such as superior sound quality. The general public ran 180 degrees in the opposite direction: to typically low-quality MP3 because it was more convenient (downloadable) and initially 'free'. When the public didn't take notice the industry (hardware manufacturers, music companies and retailers) soon lost interest too.
2) I guess a lot of the 'education' from the manufacturers doesn't reach the shopfloor sales assisants. Add to that the high attrition rate of shop staff. In Europe their knowledge level is still quite good compared to the US, where a audio sales guy may have been flipping burgers the month before and selling cars the next.
3) Not all do. For instance, Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon 30th Anniversary Edition was only released on hybrid SACD (and perhaps vinyl). I guess in the penny-pinching scheme of the record companies' bean counters it makes financial sense to release the mass-selling edition of an album as RBCD because it's tens of cents cheaper than a hybrid discs.
4) It is a niche. This site (more than any other SACD site) has a fair number of visitors yet it seems the number of people frequently posting is perhaps a few dozen; in the low hundreds at best. Hopefully the invisible users we're preaching to include many people new to SACD. Spread the message is the best we can do.
Szia
Jó reggel kivanok, Kutyatest és Steven,
I just wanted to comment on the point 3: why don't the labels release just Hybrid SACD:s rather than that plus a RBCD.
I believe that many companies actually do this. For sure Channel, Penta and BIS do not release double inventory but only Hybrids, and just the three of us represent quite a nice chunk of the market.
That a fair number of our customers cannot enjoy the SACD superior quality is another matter, but, hopefully, sometime in the future, they'll decide to upgrade themselves, and that's when they'll be even happier that they bought our products in the first place.
A viszontlátásra - Robert
|
|
|
|
|
|
bissie said:
Jó reggel kivanok, Kutyatest és Steven,
I just wanted to comment on the point 3: why don't the labels release just Hybrid SACD:s rather than that plus a RBCD.
I believe that many companies actually do this. For sure Channel, Penta and BIS do not release double inventory but only Hybrids, and just the three of us represent quite a nice chunk of the market.
That a fair number of our customers cannot enjoy the SACD superior quality is another matter, but, hopefully, sometime in the future, they'll decide to upgrade themselves, and that's when they'll be even happier that they bought our products in the first place.
A viszontlátásra - Robert
Thanks Robert
I suppose my point 3 may have been a bit too much of a sweeping statement, as I wasn't aware that some labels do only release as Hybrid SACD.
I'm aware that some of Kitaro's albums has been released on CD and Hybrid SACD. I'm fairly new at expanding my collection of his music, and at discovering it.
Another example of multiple format releases is Kraftwerk Minimum:Maximum Live album. It has been released as a CD in at least two variants, SACD Hybrid, and DVD-V.
I agree totally with your closing comment. As mentioned elsewhere, that's the beauty of the SACD Hybrid format.
PS You appear to be "connected" with the labels you mentioned. Is that correct?
Szia!
|
|
|
Post by bissie June 3, 2008 (18 of 29)
|
|
Kutyatest said:
Thanks Robert
I suppose my point 3 may have been a bit too much of a sweeping statement, as I wasn't aware that some labels do only release as Hybrid SACD.
I'm aware that some of Kitaro's albums has been released on CD and Hybrid SACD. I'm fairly new at expanding my collection of his music, and at discovering it.
Another example of multiple format releases is Kraftwerk Minimum:Maximum Live album. It has been released as a CD in at least two variants, SACD Hybrid, and DVD-V.
I agree totally with your closing comment. As mentioned elsewhere, that's the beauty of the SACD Hybrid format.
PS You appear to be "connected" with the labels you mentioned. Is that correct?
Szia!
Igen, Kutyatest. Én BIS vagyok.
Oh yes, Kutyatest. I am BIS's founder and owner. And friend of the others.
Szia - Róbert
|
|
|
|
|
|
bissie said:
Jó reggel kivanok, Kutyatest és Steven,
I believe that many companies actually do this. For sure Channel, Penta and BIS do not release double inventory but only Hybrids, and just the three of us represent quite a nice chunk of the market.
A viszontlátásra - Robert
And I salute BIS, Pentatone, Channel, Caro Mitis and others who only release the hybrid SACD's....I just wish that Harmonia Mundi and Telarc amongst others could figure out how to do so....
Cheers,
|
|
|
|
|
|
bissie said:
Igen, Kutyatest. Én BIS vagyok.
Oh yes, Kutyatest. I am BIS's founder and owner. And friend of the others.
Szia - Róbert
Jó napot kívánok Róbert!
As I’ve mentioned previously, I’m not only new to this forum, but to SACDs (and hi-res music) also. I’m also unfamiliar with your record label, and Channel and Penta. I have to be careful not to take this posting way off-topic, but I suppose my lack of knowledge is a lot of what makes this “journey” for me so interesting. Since having my Arcam DV137 and AVR350, I am making a big effort to widen my musical repertoire and discover new music. There are lots of albums and music out there that I know I like, but there must be so much more that I don’t have a clue about. In short, I don’t know what I don’t know.
Just like mwagner1962, I salute you also for releasing hybrid SACDs only! I will take the time to familiarise myself with your catalogue. Funnily enough though, earlier this week, my wife bought for me the SACD of "Soliloquy at Cold Mountain Temple" by the Chinese National Symphony Orchestra. I only noticed yesterday that it’s on the Channel label. It’s beautifully played and recorded.
I have absolutely no understanding of the way in which the music industry works, and I suppose it’s very easy though for us enthusiasts to get carried away, and bang on about why record labels don’t do this or that. I suppose such postings don’t make the most interesting reading, but it’s so easy to feel this way. I’m rather stating the obvious, but if enough albums are not being sold, and enough money is not being made, labels will stop producing SACDs.
I know I’m not alone (particularly on this forum), but every so often when I listen to a CD, I end up thinking to myself , “I wish this was available in a hi-res format”, or, “Why can’t I find a hi-res version of this music/album?”. I thought just that the other night, as my wife had also bought for me an album by Söndörgő. You appear to be familiar with at least some “aspects” of Hungary, and may already have heard of them? Another CD that my wife bought for me was The Buena Vista Social Club. Absolutely wonderful music, and not the sort of thing that I’d have bought myself - or would have even thought I’d have liked.
Just like hi-res, I suppose this sort of music is for a niche market. Are musicians often stuck or tied to a record label, or could the chance exist whereby niche labels start producing SACDs that have previously been released as a CD by a “big” or other label? Music by the aforementioned artists spring to mind, but also Andreas Vollenweider, Kitaro and Tomita. I could go on and on.
|
|
