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Livy said:
I never said that all reviews were completely untruthful; merely that some had the possibility of being partially biased. You seem unable to imagine the idea that someone might slant a review slightly in order to make a little money. Of course many reviewers are honest and trustworthy, just like those who serve in government.
Please, you are now getting patronising. Forgive the feeling in my words, but you really must understand that the vast majority of people interested in upping their hifi game must turn to reviews for guidance and advice. And there comes a point, i.e. when you have narrowed down your options (and for whatever reason are unable to demo something) that reviews by persons far skilled than oneself must be taken on trust and objectivity.
I am not ignorant to the fact how publishing works - heck, I've watched Ugly Betty so know all about it - but like I say, you have trust reviews at some point, especially those from websites, and when review after reviews make exactly the same comment about a piece of equipment....especially about speakers because in my experience these are the most characteristic (in terms of sound) and subjective pieces of hifi equipment in ye hifi chain.
I would more readily trust and compare a batch of reviews than the wayyyyyyyy biassed opinings of people hell-bent on evangilising THEIR solution for getting the best hifi....which is good for them, but may not be the best for others.
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FunkyMonkey said:
I would more readily trust and compare a batch of reviews than the wayyyyyyyy biassed opinings of people hell-bent on evangilising THEIR solution for getting the best hifi....which is good for them, but may not be the best for others.
It would be really helpful if some of those folks would open up their homes to others inviting them to come experience for themselves the delights they proselytize. I purchased based on reviews, the Musical Fidelity P-270 many years ago, yes I heard it in the store but my mind was already made up. I also have shopped and finally acquired a pair of speakers that I became pretty familiar with as a result of playing the part of "audio store cowboy" for many years. Those things were too expensive for me until I found them online 8 yrs or so old and purchased them used.
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Can I just say that tastes and perceptions change. Therefore, more inexperienced people MAY actually be better off trusting a batch of reviews (rather than just one) over their own ears! Of course, this point becomes less relevant as you go up the ladder because one would hope that those spending thousands on, say, spekaers alone, would know their own ears over years or decades and indeed have the hifi knowledge and level of critique to go with that.
Having said that, when I bought my first speakers (in a stereo CD-driven configuration), all the reviews were saying the B&W's I was going for were better and richer-sounding over the Tannoys I was going to demo them against. And so I went in there expecting to be blown away by the more expensive and clearly better-built B&W's (thicker MDF by a few mm!).
Anyway, while the B&W's were indeed warm and rich, they somehow didn't have the clairty and bite of the Tannoys, and as that is my preference, I went for the Tannoys.
This sort of goes back to a point I made before - that spekars are the most characteristic pieces in your hifi chain.
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Post by Livy January 25, 2008 (44 of 94)
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FunkyMonkey said:
Can I just say that tastes and perceptions change. Therefore, more inexperienced people MAY actually be better off trusting a batch of reviews (rather than just one) over their own ears! Of course, this point becomes less relevant as you go up the ladder because one would hope that those spending thousands on, say, spekaers alone, would know their own ears over years or decades and indeed have the hifi knowledge and level of critique to go with that.
Having said that, when I bought my first speakers (in a stereo CD-driven configuration), all the reviews were saying the B&W's I was going for were better and richer-sounding over the Tannoys I was going to demo them against. And so I went in there expecting to be blown away by the more expensive and clearly better-built B&W's (thicker MDF by a few mm!).
Anyway, while the B&W's were indeed warm and rich, they somehow didn't have the clairty and bite of the Tannoys, and as that is my preference, I went for the Tannoys.
This sort of goes back to a point I made before - that spekars are the most characteristic pieces in your hifi chain.
It actually goes back to the point made by Julien - listening preferences are very subjective to the individual and that reviews alone aren't meaningful.
How does one become a more "experienced" listener? I think what you mean is that one must listen enough to be able to settle on and articulate a preference, which does indeed take time. But once you've gotten it, my experience is that people rarely make dramatic changes afterward.
I think one always needs to make audible comparisons before buying any speaker. I would never consider advising a "newbie" to buy a speaker simply because of a good review - perhaps an amp - but never speakers. Your own experience validates why not. As someone else mentioned, reviews are good signposts, but if you really want to make a good choice, find a way to listen and compare.
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Livy said:
I think one always needs to make audible comparisons before buying any speaker. I would never consider advising a "newbie" to buy a speaker simply because of a good review - perhaps an amp - but never speakers. Your own experience validates why not. As someone else mentioned, reviews are good signposts, but if you really want to make a good choice, find a way to listen and compare.
I don't have experience with Tannoys, not since 1955 - 1960 or so. Can't then comment on them at all. But the process of evaluating speakers should involve listening to a lot of live concerts of the type you enjoy and, except that there is a possiblity that you may evolve in your musical tastes, if you find sound that comes close to the live sound, your decision will be a good one.
The success of this depends entirely on how alert you are during these listening sessions. Get caught up in what you now believe is the music per se and you may miss something important. Also try to listen to more than one type of loudspeaker. Electrostatic, Planar Magnetic, cone in baffle, dipolar cone, horn and so on. They all approach reproduction from a different standpoint and you may be more much more impressed with one type that you didn't even know existed before, over another.
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Livy said:
It actually goes back to the point made by Julien - listening preferences are very subjective to the individual and that reviews alone aren't meaningful.
How does one become a more "experienced" listener? I think what you mean is that one must listen enough to be able to settle on and articulate a preference, which does indeed take time. But once you've gotten it, my experience is that people rarely make dramatic changes afterward.
I think one always needs to make audible comparisons before buying any speaker. I would never consider advising a "newbie" to buy a speaker simply because of a good review - perhaps an amp - but never speakers. Your own experience validates why not. As someone else mentioned, reviews are good signposts, but if you really want to make a good choice, find a way to listen and compare.
At last, we're in total agreement.
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Post by Orpheus January 25, 2008 (48 of 94)
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FunkyMonkey said:
Please, you are now getting patronising. Forgive the feeling in my words, but you really must understand that the vast majority of people interested in upping their hifi game must turn to reviews for guidance and advice. And there comes a point, i.e. when you have narrowed down your options (and for whatever reason are unable to demo something) that reviews by persons far skilled than oneself must be taken on trust and objectivity.
I am not ignorant to the fact how publishing works - heck, I've watched Ugly Betty so know all about it - but like I say, you have trust reviews at some point, especially those from websites, and when review after reviews make exactly the same comment about a piece of equipment....especially about speakers because in my experience these are the most characteristic (in terms of sound) and subjective pieces of hifi equipment in ye hifi chain.
I would more readily trust and compare a batch of reviews than the wayyyyyyyy biassed opinings of people hell-bent on evangilising THEIR solution for getting the best hifi....which is good for them, but may not be the best for others.
There are some things here that I want to comment on. Knowing how things work and the theory behind them greatly helps and various reviewers appear to be ignorant of this. I've read very praiseworthy review after review of things that I know to be theoretically inferior and listening confirms this, which doesn't say much of the review or the reviewer.
Trust your ears and do a lot of comparisons is the best advice that I can give on this.
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Orpheus said:
There are some things here that I want to comment on. Knowing how things work and the theory behind them greatly helps and various reviewers appear to be ignorant of this. I've read very praiseworthy review after review of things that I know to be theoretically inferior and listening confirms this, which doesn't say much of the review or the reviewer.
Trust your ears and do a lot of comparisons is the best advice that I can give on this.
Maybe I was lucky in that all that the reviews said held true once I got the speakers - no shops had them for demo so I had to purchase them "deaf".
I agree that reviews should be used as a guide rather than treated as gospel.
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Post by hawk January 28, 2008 (50 of 94)
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4. What you don´t need: center speaker. Forget it. Those usual d'Appolitos located over your telly or (worse) under it, do no good for soundstage. Quite a few classical music SACD't don´t use center channel at all. You also don´t need subwoofer. I have only two SACDs that has subwoofer information at all.
I am sorry to respond to this comparitively late...and how could all the others
out there in MC land let sweeping statements like this go by??? Most JAZZ and other SACDs are 5.1 and they send a lot of information to the center channel...a lot of my best SACDs- Eric Clapton on the Ocean Boulevard album sounds right there in your living room with his voice coming from the center speaker. Also a lot of my Jazz albums have, for example, the saxophone coming in from the middle for startlingly realistic sound. So I think your are doing yourself a big disservice if you don't have a center speaker. Also, the subwoofer- most classical SACDs don't make use of it you say (I'll have to take your word for that), but again a lot of Jazz albums do and I also feel you take the pressure of your main speakers if you reroute the lower frequencies to a sub (where they really belong). Besides how else would you appreciate great bass playing by Jazz greats like Ray Brown. I can't comment on Classical albums, but for Jazz/Blues/Pop IMO having a center speaker and a sub is more than necessary.
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