Post by Beagle September 29, 2007 (1 of 31)
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PRELUDE
One way to stay young is to break your own hide-bound rules; one of my rules is to not buy high-end audiophile magazines – but today I bought the October 2007 hardcopy issue of Stereophile. One reason for not buying those magazines is that they don’t give SACD due credit, but this issue does.
The opening John Atkinson editorial documents an interesting blind test, where unsuspecting ‘golden ears’ reviewers (JA included) were invited in to The Listening Room to hear a familiar recording (Handel’s you-know-what). All were smiles through the first section, but then the audience began to question the acoustics of the room in the second section, grew uncomfortable in the third section and outright irritated in the final section. What were they listening to? It was a clever down-sampling of a SACD, starting with the original 24/88.2 DSD and then descending via 16/44.1 RBCD down to MP3 at 320kbps and 192kbps....
This month’s cover-girl is the Esoteric SA-60 ($4600), but two other SACD/Universal machines also get full reviews: Marantz SA8001 ($999) and Muse Polyhymnia ($6400)*. As if that were not enough, the issue includes what I assume is an annual index of recommended components, including numerous SACD machines (but you have to squint down through the text to spot them). –All of which leads me to exclaim ‘Blesséd is the child who is still shopping for an SACD player!’ since there are some very attractive options here. The general pattern is that manufacturers are now bundling technology from earlier machines into products at half the price.
FUGUE
The Esoteric is reviewed by Michael Fremer, whose heart lies in high-end vinyl, but he is also a strong advocate of SACD, no surprise. He begins his review with a short history of SACD. Of great interest to many on this forum, is the scandal Fremer shares regarding Philips SACD drives:
“...Philip’s launch, in 2005, of a poorly designed, ergonomically primitive OEM SACD transport. Aside from refusing to play a large percentage of ‘Red Book’ CDs that any $30 DiscMan would play without so much as a digital hiccup, this transport eventually produced an almost 100% failure rate in the field with no possible fix – much to the disgust, horror, and embarrassment of Krell, Musical Fidelity, T+A, and other makers of high-end players who value their reputations for making reliable, high-quality players. Philips then made matters worse by simply abandoning their manufacturer customer, leaving these companies to face angry customers who’d bought expensive products that broke and could not be fixed.”
Fremer also manages to slip in some delicious gossip into his review, and I’ll risk violating copyright by quoting one more acidic line concerning Sony’s cutting SACD production in Indiana to one day per week, which forced the ABKCO label to complete its reissue of Rolling Stones on red-book:
“Sony’s message, heard loud and clear throughout the industry, was that no independent label’s effort to support the SACD format with superb sound, a popular catalog, and low prices would go unpunished by SACD’s inventor and original promoter.”
Fremer goes on to update the SACD saga, and finishes by noting that against all odds and Sony policies, high-rez digital sound survives.
CODA
Jim Austin, who reviews the Marantz, doubts that redbook actually gives listeners headaches, as some complain. His explanation is that RBCD ‘shouts at you’, inducing stress (which of course can be manifested physically in many manors, e.g. headaches).
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* I noted no SACD discs being reviewed; no surprise since Stereophile doesn’t review many discs nowadays (cf complaints in Letters to Editor). This is obviously a task delegated to SA-CD.NET.
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Post by Castor September 30, 2007 (2 of 31)
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Jim Austin, who reviews the Marantz, doubts that redbook actually gives listeners headaches, as some complain. His explanation is that RBCD ‘shouts at you’, inducing stress (which of course can be manifested physically in many manors, e.g. headaches).
Thanks for a most interesting and informative post.
"RBCD shouts at you" is the best description I have read of what occurs when you switch from listening to SACD back to RBCD.
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Post by Ear September 30, 2007 (3 of 31)
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Yeeeessss! Red Book shouts at you! I find that very accurate as well!!!
But the other stuff is interesting as well. Does that mean, that Sony wanted to have SACD for its own good? I thought they made money from licencing, why would they punish little lables? I don't get that part. It nourishes the conspiracy theorie that Sony never wanted to be SACD a succsess since they realised too late, taht this would put an end to their Remaster of a Remaster of a Remaster cash in. Nobody who has materiel done on SACD will go back and buy that on CD ever again. And a remastered SACD? Well, I do not know.
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Post by indelibo September 30, 2007 (4 of 31)
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10 Japanese Miles Davis SACDs were recently remastered. I preordered 7 yesterday.
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Castor said:
"RBCD shouts at you" is the best description I have read of what occurs when you switch from listening to SACD back to RBCD.
Of course the interesting question then is how to describe SACD -- whiserping? talking articulately? singing?
Also, what does MP3 do -- shout at you through a megaphone?
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Post by Perigo October 8, 2007 (6 of 31)
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Beagle said:
He begins his review with a short history of SACD. Of great interest to many on this forum, is the scandal Fremer shares regarding Philips SACD drives:
“...Philip’s launch, in 2005, of a poorly designed, ergonomically primitive OEM SACD transport. Aside from refusing to play a large percentage of ‘Red Book’ CDs that any $30 DiscMan would play without so much as a digital hiccup, this transport eventually produced an almost 100% failure rate in the field with no possible fix – much to the disgust, horror, and embarrassment of Krell, Musical Fidelity, T+A, and other makers of high-end players who value their reputations for making reliable, high-quality players. Philips then made matters worse by simply abandoning their manufacturer customer, leaving these companies to face angry customers who’d bought expensive products that broke and could not be fixed.”
Fremer refers to DVD/CD/SACD unit transport inside Philips SACD 1000, of course!
I had three Philips SACD 1000 units in my system, one sold still working and the other two totally refunded by Philips.
During the normal working period, I never had problems to read any kind of CD or DVD or SACD, differently of other products (Sony ahead) that sometimes suddenly blocked on some CDs protected and so on.
The main defect that concluded my experience with Philips SACD 1000 players was always the same: after a period that could be 15 days or three months, the player stopped to read both DVD and CD (but it continued to read SACDs), or stopped to read SACD and DVD (but it continued to read CDs).
Nobody of you knows the real story of the disaster in Singapore plant where were produced the SACD transports for Philips and associated brands?
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Perigo said:
Fremer refers to DVD/CD/SACD unit transport inside Philips SACD 1000, of course!
I'm not so sure. The SACD1000 was released in the year 2000 while the quote above mentions 2005.
> Nobody of you knows the real story of the disaster in Singapore plant where were produced the SACD transports for Philips and associated brands?
I don't but surely you'll tell us all about it?
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Post by deckerm October 8, 2007 (8 of 31)
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The Seventh Taylor said:
Also, what does MP3 do -- shout at you through a megaphone?
I now have images of Al Sharpton in my head
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Post by Perigo October 8, 2007 (9 of 31)
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The Seventh Taylor said:
I'm not so sure. The SACD1000 was released in the year 2000 while the quote above mentions 2005.
> Nobody of you knows the real story of the disaster in Singapore plant where were produced the SACD transports for Philips and associated brands?
I don't but surely you'll tell us all about it?
In that years all Philips drivers inside those top brands (Musical Fidelity, Krell, Micromega, Marantz) discended directly from Philips SACD1000 driver.
All those drivers encountered the same defects as Philips SACD1000 drivers.
Too much product with defects, no possibility to repair all, dued to lack of replacement parts for that huge and expensive (for Philips name and...cash!)disaster.
All was born in Philips plant in Singapore. Somebody inside fails to design reliable parts. It seems incredible considering the Philips reputation with billions of CD drivers, but never the truth has been totally said.
This is the main reason I asked to SA-CD forum if somebody knows it... :)
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Post by Nikiv January 28, 2010 (10 of 31)
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Dear Perigo,
by chance, do you still have one of the Philips SACD 1000? I am interested in buying one (even if defect).
Regards,
Nikiv
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