Post by Luukas August 19, 2015 (1 of 11)
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I'm just wondering: is it possible to release 5.1 surround sound from the stereo sources? Can we remix the digital stereo sound to the surround?
I mean that we have hundreds of impressive recordings which are only - unfortunately - available on stereo CDs. OK, somebody thinks that stereo is enough, but surround sound brings much more for us.
Let me take an example: Bizet: Carmen - Bernstein. Lenny's historical recording appeared initially on LP, and then on CD. Now - after 40 years - it is successfully remastered from the original quadraphonic tapes.
I haven't heard the CD version - I had another recording of the work but I gave it away as soon as this arrived - but I've heard the other works that based on Bizet's "Carmen". My amplifier contains a surround decoder - it is a part of the built-in "Dolby Digital Noise Theatre System". The "fake surround sound" - which is the creation of the surround decoder - is mostly refreshing.
Now I give my own answer (I hope that you write your own comments and answers): you can make quite realistic surround sound from the stereo sources. You have to just mute the surround speakers for the ambience. The front line - two main speakers - is already prepared. The center speaker can be omitted or used for balance between the main speakers.
Note: I haven't try this but I guess that it is possible to make.
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Post by Iain August 19, 2015 (2 of 11)
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Assuming you have a digital AVR or prepro, it likely has various Mch synthesis matrix settings. Dolby Pro Logic is common, although several of us have found DTS Neo 6 to sound best with music.
I have friends who like the synthetic surround, but I personally prefer to listen to stereo in stereo. I also think discretely recorded Mch sounds a fair bit better than simulated surround.
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Sure, you can upsample stereo sources to surround artificially. Note that this is different from the Bernstein Carmen recording, which is irrelevant - that was never a stereo source, it was just only released in stereo.
Most receivers do a decent job of converting stereo sources to surround. Note that most receivers do this processing at a lower bitrate than the source media for high-res audio.
Generally, professionally upsampled SACDs will sound better than upsampling done on the fly by the receiver, but mileage varies significantly.
Membran released the 20-bit stereo recordings made by Tring in the mid-1990s as surround SACDs using artificial upsampling. The results generally weren't terrible: /titles/0/353/date/100/1
Eloquence released a number of the treasures of labels owned by Universal Classics as multichannel-only artificially upsampled SACDs: /titles/0/366/date/100/1
I'm sure there are other examples out there as well.
The thing is, while it can sound good, it's never good to be as good as multitrack-sourced discrete surround.
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Post by bmoura August 19, 2015 (5 of 11)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
Assuming you have a digital AVR or prepro, it likely has various Mch synthesis matrix settings. Dolby Pro Logic is common, although several of us have found DTS Neo 6 to sound best with music.
I have friends who like the synthetic surround, but I personally prefer to listen to stereo in stereo. I also think discretely recorded Mch sounds a fair bit better than simulated surround.
Don't forget the Surround Master. Very effective at Stereo to Surround Synthesis.
http://involveaudio.com/product/surround-master/
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Luukas said:
I'm just wondering: is it possible to release 5.1 surround sound from the stereo sources? Can we remix the digital stereo sound to the surround?
I mean that we have hundreds of impressive recordings which are only - unfortunately - available on stereo CDs. OK, somebody thinks that stereo is enough, but surround sound brings much more for us.
Let me take an example: Bizet: Carmen - Bernstein. Lenny's historical recording appeared initially on LP, and then on CD. Now - after 40 years - it is successfully remastered from the original quadraphonic tapes.
I haven't heard the CD version - I had another recording of the work but I gave it away as soon as this arrived - but I've heard the other works that based on Bizet's "Carmen". My amplifier contains a surround decoder - it is a part of the built-in "Dolby Digital Noise Theatre System". The "fake surround sound" - which is the creation of the surround decoder - is mostly refreshing.
Ordinarily, I wouldn't have know the answer to this question, as I don't have any relevant technical knowledge on this subject. My experience with multi-channel SACD/DVD-A releases though - of albums that I feel sure would have been originally produced/recorded in stereo - and are subsequently put out in multi-channel (or at least with a MCH option) tells me that it is possible and is done. Good examples of this practice would undoubtedly be a load of the Silverline DVD-As of older pop/rock music - and a classic example must be The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" DVD-A. This release offers a (twin-track) mono option, a stereo option and 5.1. The liner notes state that the album was recorded in stereo, but it was decided to release it in mono. The 5.1 mix has been done very recently, i.e. early this century.
I have also recently come across a 5.1 mix option on a DVD-V from an old (circa 1975) BBC programme. Now this programme - as all TV in the UK back then - would have been broadcast as mono. I'm not sure how the programme would have been recorded, but some ex-BBC audio wizard that spends (or at least has spent) a lot of time restoring the audio of old BBC TV programmes has created an impressive 5.1 mix.
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Post by onenairb August 20, 2015 (7 of 11)
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Yes you can.
A few years ago I played around with this on a variety of different recordings with some excellent results.
I used a program called 'HD-Audio Solo Ultra' which lets you produce 5.1 @ 24/48. This may have improved as I have not played with the app for a while.
Produce excellent 5.1 versions of the following albums:
Brian Eno - Apollo
Blue Nile - Hats
Vangelis - China (listen to this the other day. OMG amazing. Way better than stereo.)
Single tracks:
Frank Sinatra - Summer Wind
Ella Fitzgerald - I Love Paris
George Michael - Spinning the Wheel
Stranglers - Peaches
Frank Zappa - Joes Garage
Can't remember all the others.
Also tried Oxygene by Jean Michel Jarre but that just got really confusing to listen to.. may have messed up the settings at the time.
Most things I experimented with came out way better than the Dolby surround modes I have on my Kisto.
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Post by windhoek August 20, 2015 (8 of 11)
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I use Jriver as media player and it has a thing called 'JRSS Upmixing', which I assume like DTS Neo 6 and Dolby Pro Logic II, uses an algorithm to filter some music to other channels and not as some programmes do, duplicate front channel audio through the rear speakers.
I'm trying it out just now to see whether it's something I'll use because the thought Jriver might have this option only occurred to me after reading his thread.
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Post by Iain August 20, 2015 (9 of 11)
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onenairb said:
Yes you can.
A few years ago I played around with this on a variety of different recordings with some excellent results.
I used a program called 'HD-Audio Solo Ultra' which lets you produce 5.1 @ 24/48. This may have improved as I have not played with the app for a while.
...
Most things I experimented with came out way better than the Dolby surround modes I have on my Kisto.
Indeed!
The current version of "HD Audio Solo Ultra" is release 4.4. I've used it since 2010 (release 2.6 at the time) and it definitely provides phenomenal results. I use it mostly to 4x up-sample 16/44.1 files to 24/176.4 FLAC files which I use to feed DPLII-Music DSP on AVR.
Here's the Cirlinca site where you can download the programme:
http://www.cirlinca.com/index.htm
Cirlinca provide a 30-day free trial for evaluation.
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Luukas said:
...................
Now I give my own answer (I hope that you write your own comments and answers): you can make quite realistic surround sound from the stereo sources. You have to just mute the surround speakers for the ambience. The front line - two main speakers - is already prepared. The center speaker can be omitted or used for balance between the main speakers.
Note: I haven't try this but I guess that it is possible to make.
Over the years, since having a 5.1 speaker set-up and multi-channel receiver, I have discovered that I like playing all audio types over all speakers, regardless of whether the source is - for example - 2 channel or multi-channel. It works really well for me and I'm pleased with the results. I have listened to faux-surround sources, and although they work well for me for non-music listening, I've yet to be convinced by them for music. I'll admit though that I don't have lots of experience with these. Some of the Tomita CDs were encoded with Dolby Surround, which for me just didn't work.
When I wish to listen to a non-MCH source through my Arcam AVR350 receiver, I select what are called one of the "FX" - in this instance, nearly always the one called "Music" for serious and active listening. For my ears, this creates a sort-of surround sound.
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