Post by Marpow August 3, 2015 (21 of 25)
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rammiepie said:
ALL roads point to trusting your ears. Read the article, Markie, and regarding Led Zep II: A draw between the Vinyl and the HDTracks download. The Vinyl did some things better and vice versa. How does one get THE definitive version........ by owning both the HDTrack download and the Classic Records 2005 Vinyl versions?
I find myself playing RBCDs a lot more since my Meridian SooLoos have been upgraded and for the simple reason that my vast RBCD collection from the early days of RBCD certainly outweigh (in quantity/selection) what's available on HD tracks.
In relation to what is available to download, there are millions upon millions of RBCDs to choose from. And when HDTracks plays catchy up with the Classical and Acoustic Sounds DSD download companies in terms of excellence of downloads, then we'll all have something to 'crow' about.
Yes, I finally read the entire article. And here is Led Zeps DR values for II and III, obviously not really a difference between CD, vinyl and download.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Led+Zeppelin&album=Led+Zeppelin+II+
And Ralph, I get it, believe me. I know that with the equipment I have, amps, external DAC, wires, and what ever that I am hearing pretty good stuff all the time.
But I am stuck on the question, does a good 16bit beat a lousy 24bit? Does 96Khz beat 44.1Khz? This I still do not feel intelligent enough to articulate.
Maybe nobody really knows?
Or maybe are current game plan is good, just wait, as you say for the wave to come of DSD downloads?
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Marpow said:
Yes, I finally read the entire article. And here is Led Zeps DR values for II and III, obviously not really a difference between CD, vinyl and download.http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Led+Zeppelin&album=Led+Zeppelin+II+
Or maybe are current game plan is good, just wait, as you say for the wave to come of DSD downloads?
Mark, truthfully, even though there's been a lot of 'great press' concerning DSD downloads, I wouldn't expect any great quantities to suddenly flood the market (including mch DSD downloads).
They'll be relatively 'slim' pickins' just like SACD/DVD~A and BD~A.
Whoever said the format WARS are over......maybe they're just getting started.
If you see a choice and/or obscure RBCD title, you want......Buy It. Chances of it seeing a hi res download release will be anyone's guess.
When the record companies and their mastering engineers stop playing games with their intellectual properties, don't they realize all we want in the end is a mirror image of the absolute master tapes.....with NO compression and the bullshit loudness war artifacts which seem to be flooding the marketplace like vermin.
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Post by Marpow August 3, 2015 (23 of 25)
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rammiepie said:
Mark, truthfully, even though there's been a lot of 'great press' concerning DSD downloads, I wouldn't expect any great quantities to suddenly flood the market (including mch DSD downloads).
They'll be relatively 'slim' pickins' just like SACD/DVD~A and BD~A.
Whoever said the format WARS are over......maybe they're just getting started.
If you see a choice and/or obscure RBCD title, you want......Buy It. Chances of it seeing a hi res download release will be anyone's guess.
When the record companies and their mastering engineers stop playing games with their intellectual properties, don't they realize all we want in the end is a mirror image of the absolute master tapes.....with NO compression and the bullshit loudness war artifacts which seem to be flooding the marketplace like vermin.
Yes, this is why I am so hel bent on this subject. You can talk audiophile and argue til kingdoms come and in the end it is how they give it to us that matters.
2 or 3 times I have purchased a 24/96Khz download just for experimental reasons and it is not worth the money compared to a good RBCD. Sonic quality wise.
I just purchased directly from Joe Satrianis website his new music Shockwave Supernova, I got the combo Cd and 24/96 download and brand new release, released on the same day by the artist, and all I can say is whatever.
Well, if anybody ever asks this question to me that I have asked to you guys I am going to say spend your money on equipment and treatments because the music industry has a lot of tricks up there sleeve.
Don't let me and Rammie end this guys, there is still a lot of unanswered questions and statements from this morning.
I am looking for the lightbulb answer if anybody has one. I know there must be a definitive answer?
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Marpow said:
Yes, this is why I am so hel bent on this subject. You can talk audiophile and argue til kingdoms come and in the end it is how they give it to us that matters.
I am looking for the lightbulb answer if anybody has one. I know there must be a definitive answer?
I think THAT 'lightbulb' answer you're seeking has already gone off in your head, Mark.
If you see an album you think you might like, BUY IT.
I always try to get the cheapest possible prices on all my music/video purchases. I've been through all the format wars, the vinyl, the cassettes, the DATs, etc and all the hi res formats except for downloads (except for the Beatles USB stick).
You want to join the AF club......why bother. ImportCDs sells them at almost $10 to $11 off list. So you wait an extra week or two. I'm sure you have tons of music to keep you occupied until those discs arrive.
I used to buy a LOT of DVDs and Blu ray discs and now with 4K and then 8K and then 16K (????), why bother.
I only buy BD~Vs when Amazon blows them out for $5~10.
And seriously, I've literally run out of room because I'm a hoarder and NEVER resell anything.....which is why I treat each and every disc....I'm not concerned with resale value.
As long as GREED exists, the record companies will continue playing the game that the latest download/remaster is the BEST. When you stop falling for that bullshit (which it is), just sit back and enjoy your system w/o worrying if it's THE definitive version. Because as long as I've been in the hifi game, THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE VERSION unless you own the absolute master tapes and the exact machine(s) they were recorded on.........which is in itself a BULLSHIT FANTASY!
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Post by AmonRa August 3, 2015 (25 of 25)
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The real technical differences between 16/44.1 ("CD quality") and 24/96 are extended frequency range from 22 to 48 kHz and about 30 dB more possible dynamic range.
Do you benefit from the frequency range extension? Likely not. We do not hear past 20 kHz (older persons past 16 kHz) and the reproduction quality from the loudspeakers also is questionable. Theoretically higher sample rate gives better phase response around the cut-off point, which might, just might be audible in great systems (and with great ears). Nothing much to worry about, really.
Higher sample depth really does not matter at all for delivery formats. You would have to listen at deafening levels (120 dB SPL or higher) to hear the system noise of a 16 bit recording, in an unusually quiet room. People do not do that, and their systems are not capable of that.
So it is no wonder you can not hear any improvement between CD and "high res" copies of the same file.
Then there is the question of the quality of the original recording. In reality, which most people either miss or misunderstand, is that analog tapes have even nowhere near CD quality. Totally transparent copy can be made on a CD, there is no need for "high-res" transfer, as there is no high-res data on those tapes (besides some HF tape hiss).
Yet another matter is the compressed dynamic range of pop/rock music, where all the dynamics are squashed near the top, wasting all the dynamic range possibilities afforded by the technology. What you get in this case with 24/96 compared to a 16/44.1 file is four times as many random zeros and ones in the bigger file carrying no data whatsoever.
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