Post by frankpc3 July 17, 2015 (61 of 75)
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bmoura said:
Depends on your audio equipment. I use a non-HTPC here and it works just fine with my DSD converters. No PCM conversion needed.
What do you mean by "DSD converters"?
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Post by frankpc3 July 17, 2015 (62 of 75)
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Iain said:
Quite right.
However, I was responding to frankpc3's query of connecting a hard drive spinning at 5600 or 7200 rpm with a much higher throughput than a USB flash drive. A USB 2.0 port would be inadequate for that.
EDIT: I suppose he could get a 5600 rpm drive and install it in a USB 2.0 enclosure and try it. If it suits his requirements, that's fine.
EDIT2: If it doesn't work initially, he may need an external power supply for the enclosure. The Denon USB port may not supply enough current for proper operation of the disk drive.
The WD ext HD I was referring to has USB 3.0 and has its own power supply. I don't know whether it has 5400 or 7200 but the spec says:
Data transfer rate: Up to 5 Gb/s in USB 3.0 mode, up to 480 Mb/s in USB 2.0 mode.
The Denon 7200 is rated to accept DSD64. Yesterday I figured that meant HDMI. Today I assume that only refers to USB. Don't know about S/PDIF.
The PC I use is rated at HDMI 1.4 and is supposedly built to pass blu-ray 3D, but I haven't got that working. It too has USB 3.0 and S/PDIF (possible??)
I truly appreciate everybody's input with this. I'm slowly learning.
Thanks.
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frankpc3 said:
...the spec says:
Data transfer rate: Up to 5 Gb/s in USB 3.0 mode, up to 480 Mb/s in USB 2.0 mode.
The Denon 7200 is rated to accept DSD64. Yesterday I figured that meant HDMI. Today I assume that only refers to USB. Don't know about S/PDIF.
The PC I use is rated at HDMI 1.4 and is supposedly built to pass blu-ray 3D, but I haven't got that working. It too has USB 3.0 and S/PDIF (possible??)
I truly appreciate everybody's input with this. I'm slowly learning.
Thanks.
For physical disc hard drives, the max data transfer rate is a bit lower than the USB 2.0 rate, but a only somewhat higher than the USB 3.0 rate. This where the read speed on the physical disc becomes a bottleneck, discussed more here: http://www.macworld.com/article/2039427/how-fast-is-usb-3-0-really-.html. In truth, this shouldn't be a bottleneck for audio playback even for USB 2.0.
It seems the Denon 7200 can play DSD over the network or from USB - but I suspect you won't be able to playback from the PC to the receiver over USB; you'll need to use a USB memory card. External hard drives may work as well.
If you're using network, be sure to use wired, not wireless. The speed difference and reliability is substantially better.
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Post by frankpc3 July 17, 2015 (64 of 75)
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I formatted the 4 TB WD external HD to FAT32. I then copied some DSD64 stuff to it. I connected the drive to the front USB connector. The Denon says, "No Connection".
Then I copied sample DSD64 and DSD128 stuff to an 8 GB USB flash drive formatted in FAT32. It was a pretty inexpensive flash drive. Don't know anything else about it.
I plugged it in and the Denon played the DSD64 stuff just fine. Denon shows "DSD 2.8224 MHz". Sound quality is great. No skips, crackles, nor pops.
I then attempted to play a couple DSD128 songs. Denon gave "format error".
Don't know what else to do the WD 4 TB drive to get the Denon to recognize it. Maybe a different formatting option ? Maybe I will try to use a smaller partition instead of the whole 4 TB dedicated to a single partition.
Any other ideas would be appreciated. The Denon menu isn't bad. Just a generic directory arrangement. But it does display an album cover when the song is playing. Automatically plays the next song on the drive. If the external drive worked, it might be a good way to listen to DSD music.
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Post by frankpc3 July 17, 2015 (65 of 75)
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Ubertrout said:
For physical disc hard drives, the max data transfer rate is a bit lower than the USB 2.0 rate, but a only somewhat higher than the USB 3.0 rate. This where the read speed on the physical disc becomes a bottleneck, discussed more here: http://www.macworld.com/article/2039427/how-fast-is-usb-3-0-really-.html. In truth, this shouldn't be a bottleneck for audio playback even for USB 2.0.
It seems the Denon 7200 can play DSD over the network or from USB - but I suspect you won't be able to playback from the PC to the receiver over USB; you'll need to use a USB memory card. External hard drives may work as well.
If you're using network, be sure to use wired, not wireless. The speed difference and reliability is substantially better.
I'll try the wired network approach. I didn't know that was an option.
In the first line of your post, maybe you have the two rates crossed over.
I'll read the stuff from the link. It would seem that the HD with USB 3.0 wouldn't be slower than the USB stick I've tried. I guess it is 2.0, but I don't know.
Thanks for the ideas!
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Post by Iain July 17, 2015 (66 of 75)
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frankpc3 said:
I formatted the 4 TB WD external HD to FAT32. I then copied some DSD64 stuff to it. I connected the drive to the front USB connector. The Denon says, "No Connection".
Then I copied sample DSD64 and DSD128 stuff to an 8 GB USB flash drive formatted in FAT32. It was a pretty inexpensive flash drive. Don't know anything else about it.
I plugged it in and the Denon played the DSD64 stuff just fine. Denon shows "DSD 2.8224 MHz". Sound quality is great. No skips, crackles, nor pops.
I then attempted to play a couple DSD128 songs. Denon gave "format error".
Don't know what else to do the WD 4 TB drive to get the Denon to recognize it. Maybe a different formatting option ? Maybe I will try to use a smaller partition instead of the whole 4 TB dedicated to a single partition.
Any other ideas would be appreciated. The Denon menu isn't bad. Just a generic directory arrangement. But it does display an album cover when the song is playing. Automatically plays the next song on the drive. If the external drive worked, it might be a good way to listen to DSD music.
FAT32 is quite odd when formatting large disks, compared to NTFS.
I had to use 32K sector size for my 64 Gb SanDisk Extreme, instead of the default 4K sector size. In short, FAT32 doesn't like large disks. Maximum disk size for FAT32 is 128 Gb, because it came about in the 1990's before the advent of today's large disks.
FAT32 is the only filesystem that USB port will recognise on the AVR-3313. It might have changed on X7200. Try a 4K sector size on an NTFS filesystem and see what happens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
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Post by frankpc3 July 17, 2015 (67 of 75)
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Iain said:
FAT32 is quite odd when formatting large disks, compared to NTFS.
I had to use 32K sector size for my 64 Gb SanDisk Extreme, instead of the default 4K sector size. In short, FAT32 doesn't like large disks. Maximum disk size for FAT32 is 128 Gb, because it came about in the 1990's before the advent of today's large disks.
FAT32 is the only filesystem that USB port will recognise on the AVR-3313. It might have changed on X7200. Try a 4K sector size on an NTFS filesystem and see what happens.
FAT16 and FAT32 is said to work with the Denon.
I re-partitioned the drive to 1 TB, 1 TB, and 1.7 TB partitions. Then copied a song to each partition. I didn't check the sector size - it was left with the default. The Denon recognized the first partition. and the DSD64 song played !!!
I then copied several more songs to the first partition and they all showed up and play. I also included a 24/192 flac. and a 192 wav. Those played as well. I also have a DSD64 Multichannel track. Got a "format error" from the Denon with that.
I read in the Denon manual that there is a 2 GB limit on the USB connection. So next I will repartition to 2 GB. I am confident that will work.
I tried the network access arrangement. The Denon does see my HTPC, while some music does play, the DSD64 stuff is not recognized. I go through two routers to get to the Denon from the PC. I am wondering whether that is the problem with that.
Thanks for your interest and help!
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Post by frankpc3 July 17, 2015 (68 of 75)
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I redid the partitions. I formatted the primary partition as an MBR with "2 TB" ... something like 2.199 actual TBytes. Shows 1.99 TB. DSD64 plays fine.
I'd like to get the LAN connection working.
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Post by Claude July 17, 2015 (69 of 75)
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The best thing would be to read the manual of the receiver (page 42), to get to know what the device can do, and what it can not.
The receiver will not play DSD files from USB storage. It can play hi-rez FLAC (PCM) files up to 24/96 (not 24/192)
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Post by frankpc3 July 17, 2015 (70 of 75)
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Claude said:
The best thing would be to read the manual of the receiver (page 42), to get to know what the device can do, and what it can not.
The receiver will not play DSD files from USB storage. It can play hi-rez FLAC (PCM) files up to 24/96 (not 24/192)
Which receiver are you referring to?
The 7200 plays DSD files from USB storage and it plays PCM up to 24/192.
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