Post by trntbl December 8, 2014 (81 of 93)
|
|
What kind of power supply does e28 use? I see only small plug for walwart-type ps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
trntbl said:
What kind of power supply does e28 use? I see only small plug for walwart-type ps.
Yes, it is a switch mode wall wart. However, I saw a reviewer describe it with 11 stages of regulation in the stereo e22 to power each internal circuit separately and prevent interactions. Not sure if that 11stages is also true in the e28 or not. You would have to ask George Klissarov.
Some audiophiles have attempted to tweak it via third party PSs. What else is new? As with all tweaks, some swear by them, but I remain skeptical of placebo effects. Most all the rave reviewers have used the stock PS, as do I. The sound is so extraordinarily good, I am not at all inclined to want to tweak it.
I put more faith in George than I do in tweakery, which for many is an irrational compulsion with debatable sonic virtues. It is difficult to reconcile the logic of the position that this is an ingenious design that sounds fantastic, except the designer was a moron who should have used a different power supply that sounds sooo much better. If this were a budget product designed to a specific price point, that might be possible in some cases. But, he could have spec'ed any PS at most any delta to his price here, or offered a choice of upgrades, if he felt it worthwhile, that is.
|
|
|
Post by trntbl December 9, 2014 (83 of 93)
|
|
Fitzcaraldo215 said:
Yes, it is a switch mode wall wart. However, I saw a reviewer describe it with 11 stages of regulation in the stereo e22 to power each internal circuit separately and prevent interactions. Not sure if that 11stages is also true in the e28 or not. You would have to ask George Klissarov.
Oh dear. Well, if it sounds good. Wallwarts are perfectly ok in 300 USD dac, but in 3000 USD dac most of us expect little bit more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
trntbl said:
Oh dear. Well, if it sounds good. Wallwarts are perfectly ok in 300 USD dac, but in 3000 USD dac most of us expect little bit more.
If you would feel better with a linear power supply brick, there are some compatible ones available for a few hundred $. I question whether that is a magic bullet or that one philosophy is inherently better than another. Plus, are all wall warts alike, such that the use of one is an automatic kiss of death? Perhaps George should have hidden his wall wart in a big, shiny box, but I credit him with too much honesty and integrity to have done that.
Implementation, rather than sub component rubrics, are key. But, the possibility for experimentation is there, in any case. Certainly, a low wattage device like this does not need a beefier supply with higher amperage. And, here the potentially noisy and hot PS and AC-DC rectification is external with multiple internal regulation and filtering stages. The DAC itself runs very cool to the touch in its tiny box. I see where one bloke has converted it for automotive use and loves it.
For a parallel, please see the thread in this forum about Class D switching amplifiers. Some are "allergic" to all switching amps, lumping them all together based on little or no comparative listening. Others by listening find no correlation in sonics by amplifier class, switching vs. non-switching.
|
|
|
Post by AmonRa December 9, 2014 (85 of 93)
|
|
Fitzcaraldo215 said:
Perhaps George should have hidden his wall wart in a big, shiny box,
I have actually seen a picture of an opened, very expensive audiophile preamplifier which had two $2 wall warts hidden inside. But there has also been whole CD/laserdisk/SACD players which have been enclosed in a larger boxes with audiophool logo and sold at 4 to 10 times the original price.
With modern digital electronics and power controllers the old audiophile price/quality ratio does not hold anymore. This has been true with players for a long time already, now also amplifiers are effected with class-D technology. Cables are always cheap to manufacture, no matter what the sticker says. Speakers remain the only component where more money gives more, or at least really makes it possible to make a better (often bigger…) speaker.
One thing to consider: Merging Hapi, the smaller new wonder machine in basic 8 channel construction for DXD/DSD256 costs around 5000€, and that is an all out professional unit with both ADC and DAC and a lot more. Extra 8 channel cards cost around 1000€ apiece. That would make me suspicious why a DAC only home unit with supposedly much larger production runs would cost the same or more?
|
|
|
Post by windhoek December 9, 2014 (86 of 93)
|
|
I think a 3rd party PSU could make a difference to the end sound; whether that's an improvement would have to up to the listener to decide, but in principle, I know PSUs can change the end sound (based on experience with Naim amps). For example, Naim use PSUs and different ones make different changes and the same too, for the Linn LP12 PSUs with the various 3rd party PSUs available for that.
I use Teddy Pardo amplification and he is renowned for making excellent PSUs for Naim products, Squeezebox Touch's etc and as I'm reasonably sure I'll end up with an E28, I'll ask him later whether he can make a PSU for it (one of his existing PSUs might already be suitable): indeed, he invites customers to ask whether he can do this on a bespoke basis, so is certainly happy to make one-off orders. Interestingly though, I asked whether he could make one for an LP12 and he said no. I can't remember why, but that means he certainly won't take money if he doesn't believe he can make an effective and improved PSU than those already available.
http://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies.html
|
|
|
Post by bmoura December 9, 2014 (87 of 93)
|
|
windhoek said:
I think a 3rd party PSU could make a difference to the end sound; whether that's an improvement would have to up to the listener to decide, but in principle, I know PSUs can change the end sound (based on experience with Naim amps). For example, Naim use PSUs and different ones make different changes and the same too, for the Linn LP12 PSUs with the various 3rd party PSUs available for that.
I use Teddy Pardo amplification and he is renowned for making excellent PSUs for Naim products, Squeezebox Touch's etc and as I'm reasonably sure I'll end up with an E28, I'll ask him later whether he can make a PSU for it (one of his existing PSUs might already be suitable): indeed, he invites customers to ask whether he can do this on a bespoke basis, so is certainly happy to make one-off orders. Interestingly though, I asked whether he could make one for an LP12 and he said no. I can't remember why, but that means he certainly won't take money if he doesn't believe he can make an effective and improved PSU than those already available.
http://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies.html
I'm using a 3rd party Paul Hynes power unit with my e28. Adds a bit more weight to the low end to my ears.
|
|
|
Post by bmoura December 9, 2014 (88 of 93)
|
|
AmonRa said:
One thing to consider: Merging Hapi, the smaller new wonder machine in basic 8 channel construction for DXD/DSD256 costs around 5000€, and that is an all out professional unit with both ADC and DAC and a lot more. Extra 8 channel cards cost around 1000€ apiece. That would make me suspicious why a DAC only home unit with supposedly much larger production runs would cost the same or more?
You wonder why Merging hasn't entered the home market with an 8 Channel ADC/DAC. They had the Emotion server software in beta for years to address the home market, but ultimately skuttled it.
Why they haven't entered the home and pro-sumer market is an interesting one to ponder.
|
|
|
Post by windhoek December 9, 2014 (89 of 93)
|
|
I had a look at Tededy's site and it looks like there's already a PSU that would be suitable. I'd still want to confirm with Teddy before buying, but it's 12V/2A (there's also a two input version in case you need a PSU for two items.
http://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies/teddy12-2.html
EDIT:I just noticed someone posted at the bottom of the page linked above that this very PSU is being used with good effect with an Exasound DAC (no model is specified), so it looks like this particular PSU is already suitable for an Exasound E28.
|
|
|
Post by tailspn December 9, 2014 (90 of 93)
|
|
Switch mode power supplies (SMPS) suffer the same bad rap as screw top wine bottles. It's/they're superior technology, but most generally applied to the cheapest products.
All Linear power supplies suffer from a spike of input current 100, or 120 times a second. All the output current, plus the internal heat wasted internal current of regulators is drawn from the AC source in a very large current over a very small period of time at the peaks of the input AC waveform. The problem with that is the resonate circuit formed by the equivalent circuit capacitance resonating with the transformer inductance. Nasty noise!
SMPS can use very advanced active circuits to reduce self generated noise, and produce a much more efficient power transfer at lower radiated noise levels than any linear power supply, if those design techniques are employed. Usually not however in a $1 wall wart.
It's the audiophile market that keeps alive the switch mode PS = bad, linear PS = good fallacy, not the performance improvements available. SMPS's are implemented all over the professional equipment market, and their noise performance embedded in every recording you buy.
|
|
