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I have what I'll describe as a high end system using a Sony SCD-XA5400ES for the playback of CD/SACDs.
When playing back multi-channel SACDs, my home theater receiver via HDMI it is showing the input as 44.1 khz. Is it not the case that SACDs are recorded at 24 bit/96 khz. If so, why this resolution anomaly.
Being new to SACDs a simple explanation is greatly appreciated.
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kilowatt250 said:
I have what I'll describe as a high end system using a Sony SCD-XA5400ES for the playback of CD/SACDs.
When playing back multi-channel SACDs, my home theater receiver via HDMI it is showing the input as 44.1 khz. Is it not the case that SACDs are recorded at 24 bit/96 khz. If so, why this resolution anomaly.
Being new to SACDs a simple explanation is greatly appreciated.
Sounds like your SONY is delivering the CD layer (44.1khz sampling rate) to your receiver. And SACDs are recorded @ 1 bit/2.8224MHz sampling rate not, as you indicate, 24/96......which IS definitely PCM.
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kilowatt250 said:
I have what I'll describe as a high end system using a Sony SCD-XA5400ES for the playback of CD/SACDs.
When playing back multi-channel SACDs, my home theater receiver via HDMI it is showing the input as 44.1 khz. Is it not the case that SACDs are recorded at 24 bit/96 khz. If so, why this resolution anomaly.
Being new to SACDs a simple explanation is greatly appreciated.
It may be a limitation of your AVR. I can get 24bit/176.4kHz from my 5400 via HDMI.
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Post by Panaeff August 30, 2014 (4 of 9)
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kilowatt250 said:
I have what I'll describe as a high end system using a Sony SCD-XA5400ES for the playback of CD/SACDs.
When playing back multi-channel SACDs, my home theater receiver via HDMI it is showing the input as 44.1 khz. Is it not the case that SACDs are recorded at 24 bit/96 khz. If so, why this resolution anomaly.
Being new to SACDs a simple explanation is greatly appreciated.
Some receivers/processors (onkyo comes to mind) report bit streamed DSD signal as "44.1 Khz" (the DSD indicator also lights up). If you are trying to bitstream DSD, that all is likely fine.
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kilowatt250 said:
I have what I'll describe as a high end system using a Sony SCD-XA5400ES for the playback of CD/SACDs.
When playing back multi-channel SACDs, my home theater receiver via HDMI it is showing the input as 44.1 khz. Is it not the case that SACDs are recorded at 24 bit/96 khz. If so, why this resolution anomaly.
Being new to SACDs a simple explanation is greatly appreciated.
You do not say which AVR you are using ? I have the excellent Sony combo STR-DA5400ES (UK version with HATS) & the XA5400ES player using cheap £6 Silver Crest HDMI.. When playing a Chandos SACD recorded in 24 Bit/96 kHz 5.0 channel surround sound, the receiver display is showing DSD 3/2 , with a 2 L SACD recorded at 24 Bit/ 176 kHz display reads 3/2 .1 . Back in October 2008 before I purchased my Sony combo I asked Sony about DSD, Sony Technical said: The STR-DA5400ES uses the full resolution of the DSD signal (32 bit) from input filtering through to processing the signal, then & only then does the amplifier at the final stage convert to PCM. This way you can ensure the full resolution of the DSD signal can be fully utilised. I consider myself one of the 'fortunate few' with the Sony combo as I have yet to audition a better sounding system irrespective of price. OTH Tim Vine-Lott Technical Director of Air Studios who are involved with Pioneer says : DSD performance is a tricky business as it's a bitstream running at 2.8224 MHz, not a parallel PCM word of any bit depth or sampling frequency. The statement 'Sony says uses the full resolution of the DSD signal (32 bit) is not only misleading but blatantly incorrect and infers a sample rate of 88.2 KHz. The reason DSD was developed and adopted for archiving is that it is possible to extract every popular sample rate and bit depth simultaneously. If the Pioneer LX81 does decimate to 44.1 kHz then its fair to assume that some resolution will be lost.
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Gee, {scratching my head}: maybe I should just scrap my OPPO BDP~105 with my pricey Shunyata Research Python HDMI cable and my Meridian 861 V.8 and go native with Sony's miraculous HATS Receiver and become a true believer like Gerald.
Quite surprised that the Queen, who wears many HATS herself hasn't knighted Gerald for his stellar contributions to the UK audiophile community.
O' Gerald .... you cheeky rascal!
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rammiepie said:
Gee, {scratching my head}: maybe I should just scrap my OPPO BDP~105 with my pricey Shunyata Research Python HDMI cable and my Meridian 861 V.8 and go native with Sony's miraculous HATS Receiver and become a true believer like Gerald.
Quite surprised that the Queen, who wears many HATS herself hasn't knighted Gerald for his stellar contributions to the UK audiophile community.
O' Gerald .... you cheeky rascal!
No, actually, it is the Emperor of Japan who should give dear Gerald the highest recognition, including those special HATS, for his devoted, untiring and repetitive and repetitive and ... praise heaped on Sony, especially their old and discontinued gear.
Whenever I see a Japanese movie, like a Kurosawa set in olden times, I marvel at how cool their hats are. Gerald would look great in one of them along with his Samurai sword used to dispatch the Sony non-believers.
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Post by onenairb August 31, 2014 (8 of 9)
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kilowatt250 said:
I have what I'll describe as a high end system using a Sony SCD-XA5400ES for the playback of CD/SACDs.
When playing back multi-channel SACDs, my home theater receiver via HDMI it is showing the input as 44.1 khz. Is it not the case that SACDs are recorded at 24 bit/96 khz. If so, why this resolution anomaly.
Being new to SACDs a simple explanation is greatly appreciated.
Simple explanation? Maybe not but here goes.
24/96 is one of the possible source options for SACD.
The source of the SACD content can be from either the analogue or digital domain and within those domains there are a few options.
An analogue source can either be sampled direct to 1 bit DSD or (more often) transferred to the PCM digital domain in one of the multitude of digital 16 bit or 24 bit (or even 32 bit I believe) @ sample rates of 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/196 kHz including DXD (352.8 or 382 kHz) then transferred to 1 bit DSD. Hence any of these digital standards can be used as the DSD source.
DSD also has a number of flavours – DSD64/128/256/512 sample rate being 2.8/5.6/11.2/22.4 MHz. DSD64 is the most popular, the 64 representing 64 * CD rate i.e. 64 * 44.1kHz = 2.8MHz. Hence why 24/176 (4 * 44.1) is a popular (Sony) standard for those who rip SACD back to PCM.
May be someone can correct me but I don’t think it is actually possible to reverse engineer DSD back to its original (PCM) source.
As for your processor/receiver displaying 44.1 for a SACD over HDMI there could be a number of reasons but I recon it is probably your system configuration. Does your processor handle DSD? Is your player configured to send DSD or PCM over HDMI?
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If the Sony 5400 player is HDMI connected to a processor that handles DSD, I believe it automatically transmits in DSD. If not, it transmits in PCM. The HDMI handshake identifies that and tells it what to do. Other players, like Oppo, allow you to override that and force PCM, but you can never force DSD if the receiving processor is not compatible, or possible damage will result. The player automatically switches back to PCM in that case.
Many, even most, processors are geared up to display the input sampling rate in PCM words, not DSD bits. So, they erroneously report a 44k sampling rate for DSD, which is an even divisor of the DSD sampling rate.
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