Post by Iain August 10, 2014 (21 of 57)
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Yoropiko1 said:
I think that the fact that DTS-HD ( Master ) audio is backwards compatible with legacy decoders ( ie they can still extract the lossy core 5.1 element from the soundtrack via digital coax/optical ) was the main reason the Blu Ray format adopted it as the prime surround codec. ...
Given we still hope to see a 4K Blu ray format at some point ( I assume using higher capacity BD discs ) I wonder if there will even be enough space on these discs for the 4K video and multiple HD soundtracks including the likes of Atmos. In truth I doubt it, if they are released they will be like " Superbit " DVDs where you get 4K video and only the Atmos soundtrack with no additional extra material and priced at a premium price to reflect the very few people able to make full use of the Atmos tracks.
Or quite likely the reason DTS-HD-Master Audio is the standard audio codec is equal combinations of both factors; ease of manufacturing and end-user friendliness.
Back in the day, DTS was always the most favoured audio codec for DVD. There were Region 1 titles issued by Image that were exclusively 1.5 Mbps DTS and featured multi-channel and 2-channel tracks. I had two of those:
1) Apollo 13
2) The Haunting
... and this codec was truly superior in sound quality to Dolby Digital at the time. This was the original DTS codec.
Then later came the 768 Kbps DTS codec which is the codec used by Superbit DVD. This reputation for quality has followed them to BD as well, and deservedly so.
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Yoropiko1 said:
...
Given we still hope to see a 4K Blu ray format at some point ( I assume using higher capacity BD discs ) I wonder if there will even be enough space on these discs for the 4K video and multiple HD soundtracks including the likes of Atmos. In truth I doubt it, if they are released they will be like " Superbit " DVDs where you get 4K video and only the Atmos soundtrack with no additional extra material and priced at a premium price to reflect the very few people able to make full use of the Atmos tracks.
Space on the disc for multiple audio codecs is now sometimes an issue with BD-V, but generally not with BD-A. I expect that the new UHD BD format, which is glacially making its way toward finalization and eventual release, will have plenty of capacity for additional lossless audio codecs.
But, juggling an additional three x 3D formats on a single disc - Atmos, Auro and DTS - would seem cumbersome, confusing and not likely to prevail even if disc space is not an issue. That would be in addition to existing codecs for compatibility with existing systems. That is also not to mention the triple licensing costs of putting all three additional ones on the disc. So, now most BDs have only one licensed hi Rez Mch codec - DTS HDMA or, less frequently, Dolby THD - plus LPCM stereo, which is in the public domain. Unless they can find a way to make 3D audio downward compatible, to make one codec handle both existing 2D as well as 3D hi rez Mch, it means likely there would have to be one more licensed format than now on the disc. Perhaps that single universal 2D/3D codec will be the game plan if DTS decides to enter the 3-D fray. But, without that, it might not be doable on some BD-Vs with long video content even now. BD/UHD to the rescue?
2L has been putting multiple formats in their BD-As, including some Auro. But, I wonder for how long they wish to keep doing that for practical and economic reasons. Disc space is not the issue on BD-A.
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Post by Sam August 11, 2014 (23 of 57)
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My understanding is that Atmos isn't intended to be used for concert style music or general ambiance, rather for sound effects (a door closes, a car drives by, etc). Up to 118 sounds can be played at one time each with its own 3D position, and they are independent of channel count. These sounds are added on top of the base 5.1/7.1/9.1 audio. All the music is in the base audio.
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Sam said:
My understanding is that Atmos isn't intended to be used for concert style music or general ambiance, rather for sound effects (a door closes, a car drives by, etc). Up to 118 sounds can be played at one time each with its own 3D position, and they are independent of channel count. These sounds are added on top of the base 5.1/7.1/9.1 audio. All the music is in the base audio.
What you describe is the big, bold, new "object oriented" feature of Atmos, and, yes, we do not want clarinets flying around the room in 3D for music. But, Atmos is also capable of ambient sounds in 3D simultaneously with the object orientation, which is less publicized.
I do agree that Auro makes more sense for music. 2L endorsed it for that reason, I think. But, Auro is also working to incorporate some measure of the object orientation. There is a long, rambling interview with Wilfred van Baelen, founder of Auro, in the current Widescreen Review magazine that provides some insights amid the excessive verbiage. His background includes substantial music recording and mastering, although of the studio type.
All the 3D audio systems are devoted to and focused on movies first and foremost. That is the big market for Mch sound. The Mch music market pales by comparison, and it must derive what uses it can from what is accepted for movies, which leads the way in the development of these technologies. What is optimal for music, especially classical music, will not likely be a factor in determining which 3D sound system prevails. I think Auro, which is a newcomer, faces a tough, uphill battle to survive against Dolby which has had a long presence in movies, as well as audio in general.
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Post by Iain August 12, 2014 (25 of 57)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
...
... What is optimal for music, especially classical music, will not likely be a factor in determining which 3D sound system prevails. ...
Aren't you actually referring to orchestral classical music, here?
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Iain said:
Aren't you actually referring to orchestral classical music, here?
Not really. I was referring to all classical music or any other music where the recording seeks to recreate the sound of the music in a real performance space.
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Post by Iain August 15, 2014 (27 of 57)
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
A current generation 7.x processor will not be able to do Atmos or Auro. You would need a new one to handle those codecs and the height information. You didn't think, I hope, they would not seize the opportunity for some obsolescence of existing gear and a reason to sell you new stuff? I hate to seem cynical, but the underlying technology really requires many new and previously unthought of capabilities to successfully achieve a true 3rd dimension in sound reproduction.
Sit tight, watch and wait for the early confusion about height channels to sort itself out. The drums are already beating with new products for home theater mainly supporting Atmos and some BDs already contain the Atmos enabled sound formats. ...
...
New products such as this beauty:
http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/pages/product-detail.aspx?catid=hometheatre&subid=avreceivers&productid=avrx4100w
Very tempting! : )
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Post by Links August 15, 2014 (28 of 57)
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Links said:
Interesting.
Upward firing speakers instead of mounted from above.
Dolby Atmos: Bringing It Home
http://www.whathifi.com/news/dolby-atmos-bringing-it-home
While the prospect of Dolby Atmos for the home sounds uber enticing, upward firing speakers might have the same effect as soundbars which tote surround envelopment from a 'single' three speaker array (NOT, IMHO, convincing at all).
And then there's the upcoming 4K UHD "explosion" with NO player in sight.
My recommendation: If you want to experience Dolby Atmos in ALL it's glory, I suggest you avail yourselves of the DA Theaters which have invested in the 54 speaker array to make it REALLY happen.
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Post by pacwin August 15, 2014 (30 of 57)
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THis blu ray audio disc is forthcoming from 2L in October 2014. Looks like it will support Auro-3D 9.1 and Dolby Atmos
Nidarosdomens jentekor & TrondheimSolistene
Anita Brevik / Øyvind Gimse
Lise Granden Berg, soprano
Maria Næss, piano
Ola Gjeilo, piano
Magne H. Draagen, organ
MAGNIFICAT
- music by Kim André Arnesen, Ola Gjeilo and Aaron Jay Kernis 2L-106-SABD October 2014 Blu-ray + SACD
Streaming
HD audio files
9.1 Auro-3D
Dolby Atmos
http://www.2l.no/pages/preview.html
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