Post by stvnharr April 28, 2014 (71 of 83)
|
|
Euell Neverno said:
Perhaps you would care to expand your comment to be a bit more informative?
Okay, try this.........
Jitter is not something you hear, ever.
However, if one is able to reduce jitter of the player, dac whatever, by some means, clock modifications or whatever, one can then hear music improvements, such as more low level information and musical details, if one has an audio system of enough quality so that one can hear the above.
It is a small thing, in the overall scheme of audio things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
stvnharr said:
I have only cited this one sentence of your post, and don't believe I'm taking anything out of context by doing so.
Your statement makes an assumption without any empirical evidence. What improvements have been made, in your opinion? I know about Audio Rate Control but it's implementation has been spotty.
Jitter's effect on replay sound quality is relatively small, yet when removed or reduced, it can be heard if one has a "quality" audio system.
I said it was my belief as a layman. I did not say it is a fact as an expert. I do not think I have to prove or to justify my belief. You are fully entitled to your own beliefs and opinions without the offer of empirical proof, as are we all.
In answer to your question, though, having been though many iterations of Oppo players, I have heard a small improvement with each new generation via HDMI in side by side listening. If you accept that playback is bit perfect, then jitter reduction is the only possible explanation. Also, if you look at player jitter measurements historically, I find a slow trend toward generally lower magnitudes and tighter spectra of jitter. You may disagree.
Agreed, audio rate control for HDMI has been spotty, and it is virtually dead today, largely because it is proprietary and not an industry standard. But, there is hope via newer transmission methods in computer audio, which is still in relative infancy: asynchronous USB and Ethernet. The following two articles are several years old, but seem valid expert opinions that are still applicable:
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/USB_SPDIF.htm
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/jitter.htm
Getting to the topic of this thread regarding SACD vs. Download sound quality, the above conclude that audio via asynchronous USB and (wired) Ethernet transmission can be effectively jitter free, at least that is my take. The same cannot be said of most optical players via their common transmission schemes like spdif, aes/ebu and HDMI (the latter without audio rate control). However, if players are slowly improving and DACS are getting better about jitter suppression, the audible gap might be growing even smaller than it was.
|
|
|
|
|
|
stvnharr said:
Okay, try this.........
Jitter is not something you hear, ever.
However, if one is able to reduce jitter of the player, dac whatever, by some means, clock modifications or whatever, one can then hear music improvements, such as more low level information and musical details, if one has an audio system of enough quality so that one can hear the above.
It is a small thing, in the overall scheme of audio things.
Improving the equipment usually improves the sound for various reasons. I don't think we have significantly added to the body of knowledge here.
Buy better equipment? Sure.
|
|
|
Post by stvnharr April 28, 2014 (74 of 83)
|
|
Fitzcaraldo215 said:
In answer to your question, though, having been though many iterations of Oppo players, I have heard a small improvement with each new generation via HDMI in side by side listening. If you accept that playback is bit perfect, then jitter reduction is the only possible explanation. Also, if you look at player jitter measurements historically, I find a slow trend toward generally lower magnitudes and tighter spectra of jitter. You may disagree.
However, if players are slowly improving and DACS are getting better about jitter suppression, the audible gap might be growing even smaller than it was.
Hi Fitz,
I understand your experience with a succession of Oppo players. Have you considered the analogue output circuitry of the Oppo players as a source for the improvements you have heard? Analogue output circuitry will have a far greater effect on audio sound quality of a player than anything to do with jitter. Oppo has changed the analog output circuitry with each succession of players.
Jitter measurements themselves are generally worthless, just read around a bit and I know that you have done so. It is somewhat agreed that the removal/reduction of very low frequency jitter gives the most improvement in audio quality.
I tend to think most designers do not spend much thought on jitter, but instead just try to make the best unit they can, but I could be wrong on that.
|
|
|
Post by stvnharr April 28, 2014 (75 of 83)
|
|
Euell Neverno said:
Improving the equipment usually improves the sound for various reasons. I don't think we have significantly added to the body of knowledge here.
Buy better equipment? Sure.
That is not what I wrote!
|
|
|
|
|
|
stvnharr said:
That is not what I wrote!
OK. Please explicate
|
|
|
Post by stvnharr April 28, 2014 (77 of 83)
|
|
Euell Neverno said:
OK. Please explicate
I originally responded to Fitz's post, and we have each posted a couple subsequent posts. Maybe you should read them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
stvnharr said:
Analogue output circuitry will have a far greater effect on audio sound quality of a player than anything to do with jitter.
Jitter measurements themselves are generally worthless, just read around a bit. It is somewhat agreed that the removal/reduction of very low frequency jitter gives the most improvement in audio quality.
+1
|
|
|
|
|
|
stvnharr said:
I originally responded to Fitz's post, and we have each posted a couple subsequent posts. Maybe you should read them.
I did. Jitter reduction, obviously, cannot be a bad thing, but its significance may, in fact, be minor, when compared to other potential improvements. Hopefully, improvements in the analogue output circuitry of popular universal mch players will continue, thereby potentially obviating any need for an external DAC.
|
|
|
Post by Mongo April 28, 2014 (80 of 83)
|
|
|
|
|
