|
|
|
I've got a sweet deal in the works for a 2 channel system from an analogue dinosaur fellow who is downscaling to a condo. It consists of a Harman Kardon Citation I and II pre-amp and amp (both reconditioned) and a pair of Monitor Audio RS-6 and a pair of Def Tech Mythos STS tower speakers. He listens primarily to albums and tapes (reel to reel), but uses a Yamaha S8100BL for video and the few audio CDs that he has. The system, as it is, can only be 2 channel stereo using RCA input/outputs.
Checking for specs online for the HK amps shows they gave an incredible dynamic range of 2hz to 80khz +/- 1 dB for the amp and 5hz to 80khz for the preamp. The RS-6 have a really clean sound, especially on the high end, but are a bit lacking in low bass, but the Def Techs have built in, amped subs that extend the range down to 16 hz (again, according to specs) and also sound really good and tight. The system sounds totally killer for vinyl and even standard CDs.
I tried setting up the player for SACD stereo only and put on DSOTM and the Living Stereo Billy the Kid & Grand Canyon Suite just to give it a go with that medium (not totally sure if it was set up right) and once again, it sounded totally awesome, although only in 2ch.
My question is: what would be the best way to set this bad boy up with a player and whatever else to get the maximum use out of the power and more importantly, the dynamic range that this system has to offer?
|
|
|
Post by krisjan March 1, 2014 (2 of 9)
|
|
You can use those Monitor Audio speakers in a "poor man's" surround sound system. All you will need to add are a couple of long (cheap) cables and a L-Pad volume control to control the volume of the rear speakers. Check out the link for details about this set up. http://kantack.com/surround/surround2.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mushroom said:
I've got a sweet deal in the works for a 2 channel system from an analogue dinosaur fellow who is downscaling to a condo. It consists of a Harman Kardon Citation I and II pre-amp and amp (both reconditioned) ...
Checking for specs online for the HK amps shows they gave an incredible dynamic range of 2hz to 80khz +/- 1 dB for the amp and 5hz to 80khz for the preamp... The system sounds totally killer for vinyl and even standard CDs.
My question is: what would be the best way to set this bad boy up with a player and whatever else to get the maximum use out of the power and more importantly, the dynamic range that this system has to offer?
I salivated about the Citation I and II when in high school around 1960. They were considered among the finest of their day, comparable to Marantz and McIntosh. They were the designs of the great engineer Stu Hegeman, and they were also available as kits. Unfortunately, I just could not afford them, so I bought Dynaco PAS-2 and Stereo 70 kits instead for my first audio system. I had the Dynacos for years.
The Citations are rare and considered classics in some circles. I am extremely dubious about the specs you cited, however, even after mods, which I am sure these pieces have endured over the years as original parts availability dried up. Possibly, these pieces sound very good - but, probably with a distinct, colored and euphonic sound signature - considering their 50+ year age, but I somehow doubt they are competitive sonically with more up to date designs, which superseded them. Still, these items might be worth a chunk of change to a collector, depending on how well they have been maintained and, hopefully, not butchered in keeping them working.
You talk of dynamic range, yet you cite frequency response, which is not at all the same thing. I suspect the Citations have a much more limited dynamic range than most current gear. Likely, they are noisy by comparison, as most tube gear is. They might then not be the best choice with the dynamic range of SACD.
Good luck with them, but you might be better off selling them to get something new for best sound.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fitzcaraldo215 said:
You talk of dynamic range, yet you cite frequency response, which is not at all the same thing. I suspect the Citations have a much more limited dynamic range than most current gear. Likely, they are noisy by comparison, as most tube gear is. They might then not be the best choice with the dynamic range of SACD.
Good luck with them, but you might be better off selling them to get something new for best sound.
Thanks for your input!
My apologies for my mistake on response versus range. Further research of the specs shows that they are indeed referring to the frequency response +/- 1db not dynamic range. From what information I have come across, including original specs from the fellow selling the setup, the HK amp was designed to cover that range of signal, well above and below what just about anything out there today. Now whether it could output that into speakers may be a different story.
I've had some past experience with tube equipment (Altec 340a mono block tube amps) that at least to me, sounded better than most mid to high range solid state systems I've heard. From what I read in the past, tube amps do have rather high rates of distortion, but that the distortion is more in harmonics that "appear" more pleasant to hear and maybe that's what's going on.
Ultimately, I guess what I'm looking for is a good player that'll output the full sonic frequency range that SACDs have to offer with the least distortion that I can hook up to this analogue system.
I can't beat the price on the HK duo and plus the speakers seem to be pretty good sounding. What I'm saving on buying this will allow me to pick up a decent player. Due to being completely deaf in one ear, I'll be sticking strictly to listening in stereo. MCH sounds nice, but I miss too much of the sound, unless perhaps I line all the speakers up in a row or semi-circle!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mushroom said:
Thanks for your input!
...
Ultimately, I guess what I'm looking for is a good player that'll output the full sonic frequency range that SACDs have to offer with the least distortion that I can hook up to this analogue system.
I can't beat the price on the HK duo and plus the speakers seem to be pretty good sounding. What I'm saving on buying this will allow me to pick up a decent player. Due to being completely deaf in one ear, I'll be sticking strictly to listening in stereo. MCH sounds nice, but I miss too much of the sound, unless perhaps I line all the speakers up in a row or semi-circle!
I understand your issue with regard to Mch. If I were looking for a player with good analog output, likely I would look no further than the newest Oppo 105D. I myself use a 95 via HDMI for Mch, I have had nothing but good experience with Oppo for many years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fitzcaraldo215 said:
I understand your issue with regard to Mch. If I were looking for a player with good analog output, likely I would look no further than the newest Oppo 105D. I myself use a 95 via HDMI for Mch, I have had nothing but good experience with Oppo for many years.
I agree with the Oppo 105D, and I also have a 95 which I am running analogue stereo with the TV connected via HDMI.
I have owned the Citation1, and had several updates done to it. It is a decent unit when stock, but if you want a great phono stage that can run a MM cartridge then I would suggest spending the money and getting all of Jim McShane's upgrades for it. They will take it from a tired sounding unit to an incredible sounding unit. I would also suggest doing all the upgrades for the amp as well.
http://www.mcshanedesign.net/
Have fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
classicrecordings said:
I agree with the Oppo 105D, and I also have a 95 which I am running analogue stereo with the TV connected via HDMI.
I have owned the Citation1, and had several updates done to it. It is a decent unit when stock, but if you want a great phono stage that can run a MM cartridge then I would suggest spending the money and getting all of Jim McShane's upgrades for it. They will take it from a tired sounding unit to an incredible sounding unit. I would also suggest doing all the upgrades for the amp as well.
http://www.mcshanedesign.net/
Have fun.
Yes, I would expect that the internal phono stage, RIAA compensation, etc. have come a long, long way since Stu Hegeman's day in terms of parts quality, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
classicrecordings said:
I agree with the Oppo 105D, and I also have a 95 which I am running analogue stereo with the TV connected via HDMI.
I have owned the Citation1, and had several updates done to it. It is a decent unit when stock, but if you want a great phono stage that can run a MM cartridge then I would suggest spending the money and getting all of Jim McShane's upgrades for it. They will take it from a tired sounding unit to an incredible sounding unit. I would also suggest doing all the upgrades for the amp as well.
http://www.mcshanedesign.net/
Have fun.
Thank you and Fitzcaraldo for the suggestions. The HK II did have a McShane mod done on it and the preamp had a complete cap job done within the past 10 years.
I'm going to speing for the system anyway, especially since I already have an assortment of 6550 tubes (re-issued Genalex KT 88s, ANOS RCA 6550s and a set of ANOS old school Tung Sols to pop into it and give it a spin.
Now to get out and audition an Oppo to throw into the mix and I think I'll be a happy camper.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mushroom said:
Thank you and Fitzcaraldo for the suggestions. The HK II did have a McShane mod done on it and the preamp had a complete cap job done within the past 10 years.
I'm going to speing for the system anyway, especially since I already have an assortment of 6550 tubes (re-issued Genalex KT 88s, ANOS RCA 6550s and a set of ANOS old school Tung Sols to pop into it and give it a spin.
Now to get out and audition an Oppo to throw into the mix and I think I'll be a happy camper.
You're welcome.
I would suggest running the Oppo directly into the power amp; just make sure that the volume control on the Oppo is set to "0" before playing anything. You will find that the sound improvement in by-passing the pre-amp is worth the inconvenience of having to change some wires once and a while.
|
|
