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Euell Neverno said:
Sunny 70 degrees here yesterday, Rammie, but we could use some rain. In the meantime, mint juleps.
Just saw on CNN that the Governor of Minnesota has canceled schools for Monday as the temps will be 50 degrees BELOW Zero.
Good thing you don't live in MN, Euell, or your pampered Arcam's transport would freeze and buckle under the extreme cold.
Mint Julip snow cones, anyone?
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scotty said:
...these are CDS, not vinyl. After several listens they just open up and sound better. They are not going to wear out.
Yes, I'm perfectly aware that digital discs do not wear out. I was simply making fun of you for being the latest person to claim that a disc "sounds better after the first several listens." The disc doesn't change at all, it's you the listener who changes, especially when it involves a recording you already know well. You're used to it sounding a certain way, and when presented with something different you get so distracted by the differences you don't allow yourself to really listen and appreciate what you're hearing.
Repeated listenings to a new mix/remastering/etc give your brain a chance to memorize the "new" version so that instead of having the constant "hey, that's different" reaction, you can truly process and enjoy what you're hearing. Just enjoy it while you can, because as someone suffering from tinnitus (just like Pete Townshend!) I can tell you that your hearing will change over time, but not always for the better.
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Post by scotty January 4, 2014 (43 of 91)
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sibelius2 said:
Yes, I'm perfectly aware that digital discs do not wear out. I was simply making fun of you for being the latest person to claim that a disc "sounds better after the first several listens." The disc doesn't change at all, it's you the listener who changes, especially when it involves a recording you already know well.
Great feedback, and keep making fun, it is all good. But I know these open up and breathe more. You believe what you hear and a lot of us will believe the opposite. I will say this however, you might very well be right. I was thinking about that yesterday with a friend of mine. After a few listens, I sometimes start listening for as much of the instrumentation as possible, thus noticing little differences that I did not hear the first or second time around for that matter. So to your point, that might be why some of us think this way. Thanks again for joining in as all of this feedback is educating me even more!
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scotty said:
(yes they really do break in and open up)
In a month or two I plan to buy the Quadrophenia, which I have never heard before (doing catch-up for a live not fully lived).
In the meantime I tried out your proposition that the SHM-SACDs break in after multiple listenings. I played one of my least favorites, Mahler's Sixth by Karajan, six times. The first time I couldn't connect to the performance; it was too alien to me. I ran about the house doing errands. The second time I was gripped and sat still through the whole thing. The third time I slept happily through part of it ... and so forth. The disc grew on me. Finally I compared it with some of my other favorites, and found that I liked it better than any other SACD recording of the piece, even Bernstein in New York--but that I liked the Maazel recording in Amsterdam on blu-ray even more!
So the Karajan SHM-SACD seems to have convinced me that I like the Maazel BD-V. I didn't see that one coming.
Anyway, we should probably listen to every disc we buy at least six times. It brings down the average cost per listen. The more expensive the disc, the more we should hear it. The SHM-SACDs should be heard about a dozen times to break even.
The dilemma whether the disc breaks in or our ears break in has a third option: that the equipment learns how to process that particular disc. If the machine can remember where I stopped listening the last time, can't it also remember other things? The SHM is a different kind of material that the laser has to focus through, and the machine may need to adjust. (Like headlights while driving through fog.)
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Post by AmonRa January 4, 2014 (45 of 91)
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With mechanical parts in the audio chain, like speaker surrounds, and some electrical components like capacitors, there could be some truth in burn in periods (at least those components do age and go bad eventually…), but with parts dealing with digital data and "stupid" electrical components like cables there is absolutely no need to burn anything in, and it is plainly physically impossible to affect any change in them by doing so. But each to his own liking, and trying to come up with some other explanations other than human adjustment already mentioned is fighting the Occam's razor.
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AmonRa said:
With mechanical parts in the audio chain, like speaker surrounds, and some electrical components like capacitors, there could be some truth in burn in periods (at least those components do age and go bad eventually…), but with parts dealing with digital data and "stupid" electrical components like cables there is absolutely no need to burn anything in, and it is plainly physically impossible to affect any change in them by doing so. But each to his own liking, and trying to come up with some other explanations other than human adjustment already mentioned is fighting the Occam's razor.
While I will make NO claims that SHM~SACDs improve with multiple playbacks (and I have 42 of them and counting), I will vehemently disagree with AmonRa that components and interconnects (including pricey HDMI cables) absolutely do improve with "age."
If one has a good set of eyes and ears the improvement (and it's NOT incremental or any type of placebo effect) derived from a sufficient burn in period is quite apparent aurally and visually.
AmonRa you may be an intelligent sort but some of your statements are, I think, purposely stated to ANNOY rather than INFORM.
Get your priorities straight for 2014 or forever hold your peace!
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AmonRa said:
With mechanical parts in the audio chain, like speaker surrounds, and some electrical components like capacitors, there could be some truth in burn in periods (at least those components do age and go bad eventually…), but with parts dealing with digital data and "stupid" electrical components like cables there is absolutely no need to burn anything in, and it is plainly physically impossible to affect any change in them by doing so. But each to his own liking, and trying to come up with some other explanations other than human adjustment already mentioned is fighting the Occam's razor.
Plastics DO change/cure over time and changes in conditions.
Could it be possible that the heat generated by the player, or the laser's specific spectrum/frequency of light affect the polymer chains in a way that make it more transmittable for the laser to penetrate/read?
Purely hypothetical on my part, being I am skeptical that the SHM-SACDs get better with play...but wait, I HAVE experienced improved sound after repeated listens! So, I keep an open mind to the possibility that it's physical as well as human perception.
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Post by AmonRa January 5, 2014 (48 of 91)
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Data, those blessed ones and zeroes, on audio disks are in a jumbled mess, interleaved and redundancy added many times over. Thinking that a player could read this data in different ways, sometimes more musically than other times, just shows that the person has absolutely no understanding of digital audio.
That is all there is to it. Annoying or not.
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AmonRa said:
Data, those blessed ones and zeroes, on audio disks are in a jumbled mess, interleaved and redundancy added many times over. Thinking that a player could read this data in different ways, sometimes more musically than other times, just shows that the person has absolutely no understanding of digital audio.
That is all there is to it. Annoying or not.
Amon, sometimes you are too Ra Ra about rebutting "remedies" like break in periods for components/interconnects and quality of digital transports which are shared by many....and that IS annoying.
And if some people want to believe that multiple plays of an SHM~SACD improve the sound, whether scientific fact or not, what's the harm?
2 years back I started a thread as to whether SHM~SACD is the closest medium to the master tape and it was extremely interesting the comments which that thread elicited.
I do believe that the care in mastering and going DSD direct from the analogue masters and utilizing a single layered disc instead of a hybrid and of course the SHM compound itself attribute to the format's excellence. Ironically 2 years ago, in US dollars an SHM~SACD was $55....now the cost is under $41.....I will continue to support that format as long as they release product.......and this, whether or not multiple plays of the magic discs improve the sonics!
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AmonRa said:
Data, those blessed ones and zeroes...
It's funny how the "Ones and Zeros" campers' minds work just like their theory; yes or no, on or off, black or white. Believe in a little gray I say (black AND white), more fun that way :)
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