Post by PDN-SACD December 19, 2013 (1 of 21)
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Hi, I'm brand new to this forum but not new to high end audio discussion groups and other forums. Let me ask this question first.
Do all SACD players decode and send out DSD when playing an SACD? I'm assuming yes otherwise they couldn't be considered SACD players. Some output the signal through its 6 channel analog RCA connections and others through its HDMI circuitry. Some SACD players are pure players so they wouldn't have an HDMI and others are universal players (DVD, Blu-ray) so those would. My first SACD player was a Marantz DV-6001 which does not output DSD through its HDMI. So I had to rely on my Rotel RSX-1057 AVR to perform the decoding. Then I switched to an NAD T-535 universal player. That too only outputs DSD through its 6 channel analog RCA connections. Once again, the Rotel had to do the decoding. This year I upgraded to a brand new Integra surround sound processor. This unit only decodes DSD through its HDMI input. I had to then find an SACD player that outputs DSD through HDMI. Went with the Marantz UD5005 and invested in a decent HDMI interconnect. The Integra displays DSD when in use. Marantz manual recommends setting the HDMI output to PCM and let the prepro do the decoding for better fidelity. Does this ALL sound about right or am I misunderstanding this entire matter? Please explain. THANKS very much. I wish I could attend a class on this entire topic to get it straight once and for all. I've had SACDs now for years and still don't fully understand.
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Post by Iain December 19, 2013 (2 of 21)
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This is not a "High End", "audiophile" discussion site. It's purpose is discussion of SA-CD and music.
If you want to discuss kit, go elsewhere.
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Post by pacwin December 19, 2013 (3 of 21)
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PDN-SACD said:
Hi, I'm brand new to this forum but not new to high end audio discussion groups and other forums. Let me ask this question first.
>>Do all SACD players decode and send out DSD when playing an SACD?
They either send out DSD or PCM over HDMI or they convert the DSD to analogue signals. Some do both.
>>Marantz manual recommends setting the HDMI output to PCM and let the prepro do >>the decoding for better fidelity
Receivers dont have enough computing power to use DSD and apply room correction (time and frequency domain) in native DSD mode (this is now possible to do in fast fat computers with software). They therefore downsample and transcode to PCM first so Marantz suggests sending PCM in the first place plus its marketed primarily as a high end blu ray player so the PCM recommendation makes sense there as well. Common receiver's like the Integra uses 48/24 internally when DSP modes enabled.
If you send DSD over HDMI and DSP processing is off ("pure direct", whatever) then some receivers that can accept DSD over HDMI convert to analogue. Depending on your receiver and player, the receiver may or may not be better at converting DSD to analogue than the player. Only listening can tell. Also some cheaper or older receivers accept DSD from HDMI and still convert to PCM and then to analogue!!. I think your Integra is okay though.
You can also get the player to send PCM and also have DSP processing modes off in the receiver. Players vary in the rate of PCM exported over HDMI usually one of 88.2/24 0r 176.4/24. The odd one sends 192/24 and even odder some reportedly truncate to 16 bits. In these cases the receiver will tell you what its receiving or its settable in the SACD/Universal player config menus. Again depending on skillset of receiver it may be more adept at processing PCM rather than DSD. Depends, only listening can tell.
Your best bet is to take a favorite well known piece of your own music and try the various combinations on a rainy afternoon and figure out for yourself (and your system/room/ears) which sounds best. What sounds best is what sounds best not what you may read on the Internet. If you choose this music I reccomend you find a known DSD recording/mixing not just any old SACD.
At the end of the day the quality and skill of the recording and the musicianship trumps the digital format.
SO your permutations are:
Player analogue -> analogue in receiver (no DSP hopefully, can be though)
Player DSD over HDMI -> DSD capable receiver in pure direct creates analogue
Player DSD converted to PCM by player sent over HDMI -> receiver in pure direct
Player DSD converted to PCM sent over HDMI -> receiver in DSP mode (hopefully you have configured and calibrated the room correction)
When you have done it report back.
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Post by Jonalogic December 19, 2013 (4 of 21)
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Iain said:
This is not a "High End", "audiophile" discussion site. It's purpose is discussion of SA-CD and music.
If you want to discuss kit, go elsewhere.
That is not a very polite response to a newcomer. In fact, it's downright rude. There are plenty of technically-oriented threads on this Forum, and always have been. Don't like it? Tough.
And the questions asked relate specifically to SACD.
Tolerance, please!
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Post by Links December 19, 2013 (5 of 21)
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Jonalogic said:
That is not a very polite response to a newcomer. In fact, it's downright rude. There are plenty of technically-oriented threads on this Forum, and always have been. Don't like it? Tough.
And the questions asked relate specifically to SACD.
Tolerance, please!
+1
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Post by PDN-SACD December 19, 2013 (6 of 21)
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Pacwin, thanks very much for the excellent response and education. I'll follow your recommendations and report back.
I also appreciate Jonalogic's coming to my defense from this extremely rude "lain" individual. Thank you very much. Hey "lain" or should I say "lame", I'm not going elsewhere.
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Post by Jonalogic December 19, 2013 (7 of 21)
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PDN-SACD said:
Pacwin, thanks very much for the excellent response and education. I'll follow your recommendations and report back.
I also appreciate Jonalogic's coming to my defense from this extremely rude "lain" individual. Thank you very much. Hey "lain" or should I say "lame", I'm not going elsewhere.
You're welcome.
Good luck. And come again!
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Iain said:
There's a fairly extensive FAQ that deals with basics of equipment and many threads deal with more intractable facets of the technology, so I'm not convinced this is a completely OT discussion.
There's plenty of room for this and I'm firmly of the opinion that we should be welcoming to each and every visitor to this site.
PN
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Post by zeus December 19, 2013 (9 of 21)
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Iain said:
This is not a "High End", "audiophile" discussion site. It's purpose is discussion of SA-CD and music.
If you want to discuss kit, go elsewhere.
Thankfully site policy isn't up to you. You could be a bit more welcoming ...
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Post by Lunna December 19, 2013 (10 of 21)
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Iain said:
This is not a "High End", "audiophile" discussion site. It's purpose is discussion of SA-CD and music.
If you want to discuss kit, go elsewhere.
Kind of a curt reply, Iain, to a sincere request for information. Sheesh.
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