Post by Iain April 20, 2013 (31 of 46)
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stvnharr said:
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A pre-amplifier is a creature from the days of LP records. The output signal voltage from the phono cartridge was too low and needed a small boost in order to get to an amplifier. Also, a box was needed to house the circuitry for the RIAA equalization that was needed. It only made sense to include signal level control and source switching in this same box. The boosting of the signal from the phono cartridge was often just a voltage boost, but also could contain a small amount of current boost, hence the amplifying in the pre-amplifier.
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Also, there were pre-pre-amplifiers, as well.
Purpose of these were to take output of extremely low output moving coil cartridges and boost output so pre-amplifier would be able accept signal and boost it to acceptable levels.
I had one with my Linn LP12/Ittok/Karma a few years back (1995-2000). Can't recall model, though it was quite expensive. Glad those days are long gone.
Now, back to thread topic. : )
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Iain said:
Also, there were pre-pre-amplifiers, as well.
Purpose of these were to take output of extremely low output moving coil cartridges and boost output so pre-amplifier would be able accept signal and boost it to acceptable levels.
Some of you whipper snappers don't remember that there were preamplifiers around long before moving coil cartridges came to the market. Before moving coil there was and still is moving magnet technology, which also requires preamplification, although the voltage step-up is much less. Early design separated the basic amplifier from the preamplifier, in order to avoid hum and other artifacts created by joining the high and low current amplification on the same chassis. Units that combine both amplifier and preamplifier circuitry are known as integrated amplifiers and are generally lower wattage units. Some integrated amplifiers are of very high quality, but, in general, the separate amplifier and preamplifier solution is considered superior, although this is much less of a consideration with modern transistorized units than tube powered amplification with noisy transformers.
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Post by Bobpaule April 20, 2013 (33 of 46)
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Kal Rubinson said:
Consider the Parasound P7.
Kal (who just bought the last AR MP1)
Did initially, but after discovering the others, the P7 looked more like a glorified potentiometer, being unbalanced.
I think the stereo preamp way would mostly benefit my DSD Master Recording MoFi and Universal Japan tracks.
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Post by stvnharr April 20, 2013 (34 of 46)
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Iain said:
Also, there were pre-pre-amplifiers, as well.
Now, back to thread topic. : )
Yes, I could have mentioned pre-preamps for moving coils, but thought it irrelevant on an sacd forum.
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Post by stvnharr April 20, 2013 (35 of 46)
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Euell Neverno said:
Some of you whipper snappers don't remember that there were preamplifiers around long before moving coil cartridges came to the market. Before moving coil there was and still is moving magnet technology, which also requires preamplification, although the voltage step-up is much less. Early design separated the basic amplifier from the preamplifier, in order to avoid hum and other artifacts created by joining the high and low current amplification on the same chassis. Units that combine both amplifier and preamplifier circuitry are known as integrated amplifiers and are generally lower wattage units. Some integrated amplifiers are of very high quality, but, in general, the separate amplifier and preamplifier solution is considered superior, although this is much less of a consideration with modern transistorized units than tube powered amplification with noisy transformers.
Euell,
This is all off topic on an sacd forum, but nonetheless, you have a very convoluted and confusing post here. Perhaps you need to go back and reread a couple posts up about preamps and pre-preamps as they are different. Moving maganet cartridges did not need a pre-preamp like a moving coil, unless you know of an exception.
Over the last 15 years or so, many companies have simply developed phono preamplifiers that will cover every conceivable phono cartridge, so that you then can just connect the phono preamp into a line level input on a preamplifier.
So called integrated amplifiers can cover a lot of ground. Some simply have source switching ability and volume level control added to an amplifier. Some may actually have a gain stage. And others may even have a small amount of current amplifying as well. Real high quality integrates often have a separate box for power supplies so that the integrated one box simplification goes away and you are back to two boxes.
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stvnharr said:
Euell,
This is all off topic on an sacd forum, but nonetheless, you have a very convoluted and confusing post here. Perhaps you need to go back and reread a couple posts up about preamps and pre-preamps as they are different. Moving maganet cartridges did not need a pre-preamp like a moving coil, unless you know of an exception.
Over the last 15 years or so, many companies have simply developed phono preamplifiers that will cover every conceivable phono cartridge, so that you then can just connect the phono preamp into a line level input on a preamplifier.
So called integrated amplifiers can cover a lot of ground. Some simply have source switching ability and volume level control added to an amplifier. Some may actually have a gain stage. And others may even have a small amount of current amplifying as well. Real high quality integrates often have a separate box for power supplies so that the integrated one box simplification goes away and you are back to two boxes.
Sorry, missed the pre-pre
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Post by stvnharr April 20, 2013 (37 of 46)
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Euell Neverno said:
Sorry, missed the pre-pre
All the pre's can get confusing.
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stvnharr said:
All the pre's can get confusing.
We've always referred to outboard phono preamps as that, phono preamps, but there is a logic to the pre-pre nomenclature, I suppose.
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Post by duchski November 28, 2013 (39 of 46)
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Interesting info. I am looking to upgrade mu current system and was thinking about Oppo 105 with ESS SABRE Dacs. This BD/DVD/CD/network player fulfills all my needs as a source and It's DACS are more than enough quality wise so I don't need to duplicate them in any processor, AVR or preamp. Ideally I would love to get a FIVE channel amp or five mono blocks and feed them directly from the Oppo via analog outs taking advantage of its expensive ESS SABRE DACs. Can I Do that? Does Oppo 105 come wit "volume control" or level control?
Realistically volume control is the only feature of a pre-amp that I need at this point so if I can't use Oppo to control volume of the power amp, what are my best options for a simplistic but decent quality pre-amp that offers just that: volume control without any superfluous bells and whistles or circuitry degrading the sound?
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duchski said:
Interesting info. I am looking to upgrade mu current system and was thinking about Oppo 105 with ESS SABRE Dacs. This BD/DVD/CD/network player fulfills all my needs as a source and It's DACS are more than enough quality wise so I don't need to duplicate them in any processor, AVR or preamp. Ideally I would love to get a FIVE channel amp or five mono blocks and feed them directly from the Oppo via analog outs. Can I Do that? Does Oppo 105 come wit "volume control" or level control?
Realistically volume control is the only feature of a pre-amp that I need at this point so if I can't use Oppo to control volume of the power amp, what are my best options for a simplistic but decent quality pre-amp that offers just that: volume control without any superfluous bells and whistles or circuitry degrading the sound?
Yes.
Yes.
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